<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p><br>
Michael,<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">... there's no offensive strategy for changing the winner from the CW
to one's own favorite,</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Say sincere is<br>
<br>
46 A<br>
44 B<br>
10 C<br>
<br>
A is the CW (as well as being every other type of winner).<br>
<br>
Now suppose the B voters all decide to bury against A by ranking C
second:<br>
<br>
46 A<br>
44 B>C<br>
10 C<br>
<br>
Now C has the lowest Borda score and the lowest "top count", so
if we are using<br>
IRV/RCV or Baldwin C is eliminated, "taking down" A and leaving B
elected.<br>
<br>
The "offensive strategy" has succeeded. This is the same
outrageous failure of <br>
the Later-no-Help and Plurality criteria that we see with Margins.<br>
<br>
I'm not clear how Coombs (or your preferred version of it) handles
truncation.<br>
<br>
Is the "bottom count" Fractional (in other words based on the
symmetrically completed ballots)<br>
or Whole (so that truncated ballots give a whole vote to each of
the bottom-counts of the truncated<br>
candidates)?<br>
<br>
In this case neither version eliminates C, but I'd be surprised if
examples couldn't be made of<br>
them also failing those criteria.<br>
<br>
You implied that you are a fan of Later-no-Harm. If that is the
case I don't think you will find a better<br>
method than plain IRV/RCV<br>
<br>
Chris B.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">Here are 3 elimination-methods that eliminate 1 candidate at a time:
…
RCV/IRV: Eliminates lowest topcount
…
Coombs: Eliminates highest bottomcount
…
Baldwin; Eliminates lowest Borda-score.
…
Any one of those can be the “base-method” .</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><b style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;">Michael Ossipoff</b><span style="color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size:
medium; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline
!important; float: none;"><span> </span></span><a
href="mailto:election-methods%40lists.electorama.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BEM%5D%20My%20CTE%20post%20to%20EM&In-Reply-To=%3CCAOKDY5CU-zc3Y%3DC%3DrFWagy3zVw5Px6KPaULqW89gHdxshRZh8A%40mail.gmail.com%3E"
title="[EM] My CTE post to EM" style="font-family: "Times
New Roman"; font-size: medium; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal;">email9648742 at gmail.com</a><br
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Times New
Roman"; font-size: medium; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;">
<i style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Times New
Roman"; font-size: medium; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;">Fri Oct 6 14:33:40 PDT 2023</i><span style="color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Times New Roman";
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline
!important; float: none;"></span>
<p style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Times New
Roman"; font-size: medium; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;"><br>
</p>
<hr style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Times New
Roman"; font-size: medium; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;">
<pre style="white-space: pre-wrap; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;"> When I said:
"There’s no offensive strategy for changing the CW to one’s own favorite."
I meant, there's no offensive strategy for changing the winner from the CW
to one's own favorite.
On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 5:21 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a href="http://lists.electorama.com/listinfo.cgi/election-methods-electorama.com">email9648742 at gmail.com</a>>
wrote:
><i> Name of Method:
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> CW,Takedown-Elimination (CTE)
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> or
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Simmons-Ossipoff Method
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Okay yes, I like the 2nd one.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> It adds an enhancement to any of several already-existing
</i>><i> elimination-methods.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Here are 3 elimination-methods that eliminate 1 candidate at a time:
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> RCV/IRV: Eliminates lowest topcount
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Coombs: Eliminates highest bottomcount
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Baldwin; Eliminates lowest Borda-score.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Any one of those can be the “base-method” .
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Method rule:
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Ranked balloting. Equal-rankng & truncation allowed.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> 1) Check for a CW & elect hir.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> 2) If none, do the base-method.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> 3) During the doing of the base-method:
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> When the base-method’s rule eliminates a candidate, eliminate additionally
</i>><i> anyone who is pair-beaten by that candidate. …& additionally any
</i>><i> candidate beaten by that 2nd candidate.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> That’s takedown & secondary takedown.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> 4) If anyone becomes un-pairbeaten due to elimination of who beats hir,
</i>><i> s/he wins.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> 5) Continue till only one candidate remains uneliminated.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> [end of count-rule definition]
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Though it was Forest who introduced the unprecedentedly gamechanging
</i>><i> Takedown, & applied it to Coombs & Baldwin, the bombast in this post is all
</i>><i> mine.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Obviously a CW wins if voting is sincere.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> There’s no offensive strategy for changing the CW to one’s own favorite.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> There’s no need for defensive strategy to protect the win of a CW.
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> While MinMax(wv), Schulze, RP(wv) & Smith//MinMax(wv) require defensive
</i>><i> truncation to deter burial strategy against the CW, the above-defined
</i>><i> method requires no such defensive strategy, & voters can rank all the way
</i>><i> down to the bottom if they want to.
</i>><i>
</i>><i>
</i>><i> PS. I added a statement that, for the purposes of takedown & secondary
</i>><i> takedown, "pair-beaten" should probably mean "pairbeaten according to the
</i>><i> rankings before any eliminations."
</i>><i>
</i>><i> …
</i>><i>
</i>><i> Michael Ossipoff</i></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>