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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span class="gmail-im">Kristofer says:<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span class="gmail-im">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span class="gmail-im">[quote]<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span class="gmail-im">On 9/25/23 20:41, Michael Ossipoff wrote:</span><br>
[quote]<br>
<span class="gmail-im">…<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span class="gmail-im">> Some academic authors have high praise
for Coombs. One say that, with </span><br>
<span class="gmail-im">> sincere ranking, & fewer than 5 candidates, Coombs
always elects the CW.</span><br>
[/quote]<br>
…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">That can't be right:<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<br>
1: A>C>B>D<br>
1: B>C>A>D<br>
2: A>D>B>C<br>
1: A>C>D>B<br>
3: B>C>D>A<br>
1: D>A>C>B<br>
…<br>
A is the CW but has highest last preference count and so is eliminated <br>
first.<br>
…<br>
However, it *is* true for three candidates.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[/quote]<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">That’s probably what the author actually said.<br>
…<br>
<span class="gmail-im">[quote]<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span class="gmail-im">[quote]<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span class="gmail-im">> But Coombs is obviously vulnerable to
east burial strategy. In </span><br>
<span class="gmail-im">> particular, trust & betrayal perpetrated by the voters
of a “ lesser”-evil.<span></span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span class="gmail-im">[/quote]</span><br>
…<br>
Clearly then, knowing this fact, the voters who propose and enact Coombs <br>
must be tough voters who would never ever bury. Therefore Coombs' burial <br>
incentive is no problem wherever it would be proposed.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[/quote]<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Well, maybe not quite so “clearly”. How does not ever
burying equate with “tough”ness? <span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I must confess that I haven’t heard about proposals to enact
Coombs.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">How very odd, that people who would never bury are the
(only) people who’d want to enact a method that incentivizes burying &
could well lead to rampant routine mutual burying !!<span>  </span><span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Isn’t science amazing!<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[quote]<br>
I jest :-)<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[/quote]<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…&, by so doing, you waste our time, & space at the
postings-page, & send your substandard attempt at humor to everyone’s
e-mail. <span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">You’re aware that your bullshit is going to the e-mail of
every list-subscriber, right?<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[quote]<br>
My real point is "beware arguments that are too powerful; they might <br>
just lead to absurdity".<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[/quote]<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Kristofer must still be jesting<span>  </span>:-)<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The only absurdity is in his sloppy attempt at an analogy,
which has nothing in common with what it’s supposed to be an analogy for.<span>   </span>…& his equally sloppy & absurd
conclusion from it (which he expressed as a serious “real point”, rather than as
“jest”);<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…suggesting the question: Does Kristofer understand the
difference between a jest & a “real point”?<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Evidently Kristofer believes that an electorate that enacts
RCV does so because they can’t wait to bury their favorite under a disgusting
lesser-evil.. :-) <span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…Oh, but wait--they can already do that in Plurality, &
don’t need to enact RCV for that purpose.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Go figure.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…but we wouldn’t want to say anything absurd<span>  </span>:-) <span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<br>
[quote]<br>
Amusingly, according to James Green-Armytage, if we don't care about <br>
strategic susceptibility<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[/quote]<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I didn’t say or imply that I don’t care about “strategic susceptibility”.<span>  </span>I said that an electorate who has enacted RCV
wouldn’t do so because they’re inclined to bury their favorite under a
lessesr-evil.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Since the start of EM, strategy-need has been my<span>  </span>emphasis here. …& remains so. Perhaps Kristofer
didn’t read my posts that said that RCV’s disadvantage is that it strongly
depends on the electorate not being timid lesser-evil giveaway-voters.<span>  </span><span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…or when I said that I prefer the versatile & foolproof Condorcet
because it accommodates & reassures even the most cowardy oversompromiser.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">At no time did I say that optimal voting in RCV never
involves strategy. I spoke of an electorate that obviously wants to rank
sincerely (& says so).<span>  </span>…& said
that they therefore weren’t enacting RCV in order to bury their favorite under
a despicable lesser-evil. I didn’t say that they’d optimally *always* rank
sincerely.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Based on policies, there’s just no way that a Democrat or
Republican could beat Jill Stein in an honestly-counted 2-way contest,
following a debate that clarifies their policy-differences & reminds of whatever
habitual dishonesty a candidate or party has had.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I’ve never heard of a Condorcet poll in which the Green wasn’t
the CW.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I prefer a method that always elects, when one exists, a
candidate who’d beat each of the others in a 2-way election, as indicated by pairwise
beating everyone in a pairwise-count election.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">With RCV, that candidate usually wins. But not always.
Sometimes strategy is needed in order to achieve that.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Do you do that when your 2^nd choice compromise is
a sleazy corrupt POS?<span>  </span>I hope not.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">But that doesn’t mean that doing so is never optimal in RCV:<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Suppose that (as I’ve claimed, & still claim, is how
things are in our elections), there are the Sleazy POS candidates, &, in
contradistinction, the excellent & fully acceptable candidates. But what I’m
saying doesn’t depend on it being that stark & well-defined.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So, say that some set of candidates is your excellent, or at
least fully-acceptable ones. They’re the (only) ones that I’d suggest approving
in an Approval election. <span> </span><span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Say the method is RCV, & the most winnable member of
your excellent or fully acceptable candidates isn’t your favorite member of
that set.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">You should rank the excellent or fully-acceptable candidates
in order of winnability, & then, below them, rank the other candidates in
order of preference (i.e. in reverse order of degree of unacceptableness/despicableness).<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…because RCV meets Later-No-Harm, & so there’s no instrumental
reason not to rank the unacceptables.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So, yes, RCV’s optimal voting will sometimes or often be
strategic.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I never said that RCV meets FBC.<span>  </span><span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Condorcet’s FBC failure is so rare, unpredictable as to make
it strategically-irrelevant.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">RCV’s FBC-failure is much more significant & strategy-causing.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">But I still like RCV, because the top-end defensive strategy
that I described isn’t a problem.<span>   </span>…compared
to the problem that RCV *won’t* have (for the reason I’ve been stating) with
disgusting lesser-evils.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…& of course RCV has its special advantages, such as:<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">No Chicken-Dilemma<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">No offensive-strategy whatsoever<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Later-No-Harm<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Later-No-Help.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">You know, the fact that RCV’s only strategy is defensive
means that there’s no need to try to prevent it.<span>  </span>i.e., when using show-of-hands instead of
written writings, where voters’ vote in any round could be influenced by events
so far.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">In fact, defensive strategy could be facilitated, by letting
people in a public-election change their votes if desired, after the 1^st
full election-count, & then doing a 2^nd full election-count with
the changed rankings.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…or by reporting the result of each round of counting,
allowing votes to be changed, after which that round would be repeated.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…or even by automation (optimal for each voter).<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…suggesting a possible procedure that could have a set of desirable
properties & criterion-compliances not ordinarily possible.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Those enhancements probably would overcomplicate a first
proposal.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[quote]<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">If we don’t care about strategic-susceptibility, then Coombs
has a better VSE than IRV. So if <br>
we can simply discard strategy by the (too general) argument that <br>
strategy will never come into play<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">[/quote]<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">As explained above, I said no such thing about RCV.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">You didn’t read my post(s) that you’re replying to, did you.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">You know, it might be best to not comment on or reply to
what you don’t read.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Oh, & BTW, has SU’s name been changed to VSE?<span>  </span>:-)<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Yes, & it’s been long known, from many simulations, that
cardinal methods, voted sincerely, give high SU/VSE in simulations. Of course,
if the voters’ candidate-ratings are determined by the same spatial-distances
that are used for determining the SU of the result, it’s hardly surprising that
cardinal methods would have spectacular success in simulations with sincere
voting.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">It hardly needs a simulation to establish that.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">But sincere voting of course isn’t what we’ll get under
current conditions with cardinal methods. As I’ve previously described here,
Approval, Score & STAR encourage a voter to do giveaway.<span>  </span>…as a matter of course.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Timid voters can be expected, in Approval, to approve
Disgusting Lesser-Evil to protect against Greater-Evil<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Likewise, to some degree, with Score & STAR.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">A provided balloting, due the possibilities that it offers
that Plurality doesn’t offer, <span> </span>encourages
& suggests to the voter a way of voting. Rankings suggest & encourage sincere
ranking. Cardinal ballots suggest & encourage spreading-it-around
generously giving partial points “sincerely” to everyone, including
Sleazy-Lesser-Evil….to show that you sincerely rate him higher than
Greater-Evil.<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…<span></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">…So Cardinal methods will result in Evils (the Lesser kind)
getting a lot of help to use against Favorite.<span></span></p>





</div>