<div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Forest Simmons</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:forest.simmons21@gmail.com">forest.simmons21@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 23:43<br>Subject: Re: [EM] Reply to Rob regarding RCV<br>To: Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com">email9648742@gmail.com</a>><br>CC: EM list <<a href="mailto:election-methods@electorama.com">election-methods@electorama.com</a>><br></div><br><br><div dir="auto">Elimination with take down reliably punishes the (most likely) cycle instigating faction by electing their least favorite of the three members of the artificial top cycle.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">However we can go beyond that with a two stage manual runoff that asks (in the first stage) if they would rather have a runoff between the other two members of the cycle. If most of them say no, then the election result stands. Otherwise, the two candidate runoff takes place.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It can be shown that optimal strategy by rational voters aware of the other voters true preferences will always elect the sincere CW if there is one.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Otherwise (i.e. in the rare case of a sincere cycle) rational voters will prefer the first offered candidate over a runoff between the other two.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">To fully take advantage of this fact, instead of a choice between the RCV winner and a runoff between the other two cycle members ... make the first choice between the classical wv Condorcet winner and a runoff between the other two top cycle members.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Rational voters will choose the sincere CW when there is one, otherwise the cycle will be broken at the weakest wv link.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">fws</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 10:22 PM Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 14:52 Forest Simmons <<a href="mailto:forest.simmons21@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">forest.simmons21@gmail.com</a></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Having returned home, I can resume what I was saying: </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As with other pairwise count methods, with Benham, the CW’s voters can, by refusing to rank anyone they don’t approve, deny support to inimical offensive order-reversers. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But with wv, they need only weaken the defeat some. With Benham, they’d have to outright prevent the defeat.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">…& Benham doesn’t have wv’s truncation-proofness. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But you (Forest) pointed out that the rankings in the examples of wv’s defense-successes are consistent with preferences other than those that I assumed, & therefore that maybe an exam of wv you defending against one kind of attack, wv could be interpreted as an example of wv allowing another kind of attack.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Until I or someone else thoroughly examine that situation, of course I shouldn’t be proposing the wv methods or the other Condorcet completions that work similarly (such as some of the Approval completions of Pairwise Count).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But in the meantime, & regardless of how the wv situation turns out, Sequential-Pairwise is proposable, because it prevents or deters offensive strategy in a different way, via unpredictability.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But at least until the wv situation has been thoroughly examined & vindicated (it might not be), I shouldn’t claim anything ab wv.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So, I found fault with Benham, but you may have shot-down wv. :-)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Michael </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">voters might minimize support for the order reversal attack I described, by refusing to rank anyone whom they don’t approve. But in wv it’s only necessary to reduce the strength of the strategists’ defeat of whom they beat & vote over CW.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But with Benjamin, those defensive voters would have to actually prevent the strategists’ candidate from beati</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto"><div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"></div></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 11:19 AM Michael Ossipoff <<a href="mailto:email9648742@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">email9648742@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hi Rob—<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">You wrote:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Oh Michael...where do I begin? Your apparent move to
the dark side makes me sad. I realize that this intro may sound
condescending, but I truly don't mean it that way. I deeply respect your
opinion. YOU were the one who taught me about "center squeeze" in
1995 or so, and made me rethink AV/PV/IRV/RCV (or whatever the name of the week
is). <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[/quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Yes, earlier I was quite critical of RCV (called IRV in
those days, before San Francisco insisted on RCV, because “instant” was
misleading people to expect an instantaneous count).<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I was wrong.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">You know that often the relative merits, advantages &
disadvantages of single-winner methods aren’t what they at first seem. Never be
prematurely sure that someone is wrong about such matters.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">But I would like to remind you that I also continue to say
that Condorcet, in its best versions, is my favorite, because, always electing
the CW, it best gets rid of the lesser-of-2-evils problem (LO2E) for any &
every<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>kind of voter, thereby
accommodating even the most timid LO2E giveaway voter.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">As I said, RCV only works & has merit if the voters
aren’t timid overcomromising LO2E giveaway voters.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I don’t deny that Condorcet-failure is a disadvantage, but,
with a good electorate, it doesn’t matter. I used to say that Approval’s
equal-givaway, amounting to an abstention between Favorite & Lesser-Evil,
is better than RCV’s favorite-burial…but not if you have an electorate that won’t
do the burial !!!<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Approval & STAR encourage Mr. Timid to do giveaway. RCV
encourages everyone to be frank, honest, ambitious, hopeful !!!<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…because, as I said, that won’t be a problem, because an
electorate that has enacted RCV didn’t do so because they want & intend to
vote a hold-you-nose lesser-evil over their favorite (They can & do do that
now, in Plurality). If they enact RCV it’s because they want & intend to
sincerely rank the candidates, expressing & fully-supporting their
favorite.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…& so THEY WILL DO SO !!!<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">So don’t worry about LO2E strategy in RCV voting.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Anti-RCVists often say that RCV doesn’t really honor
majority.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">But, as I’ve been saying, though RCV doesn’t meet the
Condorcet Criterion, it meets the Mutual-Majority Criterion (MMC).<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>Let me state an improved & expanded
definition of MMC:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">MMC:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">If there are 1 or more sets of candidates such that a
majority of the voters prefer the candidates of that set to everyone outside
the set, then the winner should come from such a set.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(Then it goes without saying that, when there’s a
Mutual-Majority (defined below) the winner will come from that
Mutual-Majority.)<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>[end of MMC
definition]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">A majority who all prefer some set of candidates to everyone
outside that set, I call an Agreeing-Majority.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">A majority who all prefer *the same* set of candidates to
everyone outside that set, I call a <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>Mutual-Majority.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(Arguably a weaker definition of a Mutual-Majority would do:
A majority who all prefer all of their favorites to everyone outside the set of
all their favorites.)<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">When there are 1 or more Agreeing-Majorities, RCV always
elects the candidate of the largest faction of<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</span>an Agreeing-Majority.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">i.e. under those conditions, RCV always elects the favorite
of an Agreeing-Majority.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">RCV always elects the candidate of the largest faction of
the Mutual-Majority.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">i.e. RCV always elects the favorite of the Mutual-Majority.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">That candidate isn’t an unpopular extremist, but instead has
strong genuine majority coalition support, as defined above.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I just think you're incorrect about FairVote.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[/quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I didn’t say anything about FairVote.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Whether you like FairVote or not, that has no bearing on the
merits of RCV.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">FairVote, from the start, has insisted on offering the
traditional RCV.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>We should respect that
choice. RCV has about a century of precedent in Australia & Ireland.
Proposing a traditional method with long precedent is a valid practical choice,
& one that we should respect.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…& that proposal has been enormously successful, &
is sweeping this country. Maybe its century of traditional precedent has
something to do with its success.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">When RCV was<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</span>initially being adopted, of course there were no computers, & so Condorcet’s
complete pairwise-count would be infeasible in a large election. Sure, the
Sequential-Pairwise (SP) pairwise-count only needs about twice as much
vote-counting as RCV.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(Approval, Score, STAR & RCV all need roughly the same
amount of vote-counting (they all vary greatly), & SP needs about twice as
much.)<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Maybe people didn’t want twice as much vote-counting. Or
maybe they were afraid that SP would be rejected because of its Pareto
violation (which I consider irrelevant, just like MinMax’s Condorcet-Loser
violation). <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Then there’s Coombs, which I guess would have about the same
amount of vote-counting as RCV. But maybe they didn’t like Coombs because things
could get ridiculous, like when I nominate Dracula in the primary, so that we
can bury the Democrat under Dracula. <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…but of course there are worse things than ridiculous.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>Maybe we haven’t been fair to Coombs.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">As I said, I prefer Condorcet, in its best versions, but
it’s RCV that has the activist movement, big well-funded national organization,
lobbyists, experienced & active campaign-managers, & big successes all
around this country.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…with (I’ve read) on the order of 60 municipalities & 2
states having adopted RCV.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">If RCV, & not Condorcet, is succeeding, we Condorcetists
have nothing to complain about. When the RCVists were doing the work, we
weren’t out there enacting anything.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>Don’t
blame the RCVists for that..<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">We should acknowledge, commend & appreciate what the RCV
organization has accomplished.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">RCV is already poorly understood. <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[/quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">RCV is enormously popular with progressives &
progressive organizations & parties, such as the GPUSA, the U.S.
Greens.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>…because they understand that
rank-balloting will allow them to express all of their preferences among the
candidates.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…& because they’ve been correctly informed that RCV has
genuine strong majority properties, when it coalesces the Mutual-Majority.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>..even if they haven’t heard about the
details of those properties.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">As for RCV’s definition, RCV can be defined very briefly, in
one sentence:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Repeatedly eliminate the candidate who tops fewest rankings,
till someone tops most of them.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[end of brief RCV definition]</p></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Brief definition of Benham:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Repeatedly eliminate the candidate who tops the fewest rankings until someone tops most of them in every head-head matchup (between it and any other uneliminated candidate).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">fws</div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">When I moved to San Francisco in 2011, I expected to
grudgingly like voting in RCV elections, and I expected to enjoy ranking my
choices What I found instead was that very few people here understand
how votes are counted<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[/quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">They would if they heard RCV’s brief definition.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">, and many folks in my lefty political tribe here take great
pride in their ignorance of math and the inner workings of their electoral
system, trusting that the powers-that-be will count things correctly.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[/quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…& they’re right, when the method is RCV.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>(…& likewise would be, with a good
Condorcet version too.)<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">As "exhibit A", I will point to the recent clown
show in Alameda County (i.e. just a few miles east of me, on the other side of
a puddle known as the "San Francisco Bay"):<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Alameda-County-admits-tallying-error-in-17682520.php" style="text-decoration:underline;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:blue" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Alameda-County-admits-tallying-error-in-17682520.php</a><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> It would seem that they had been counting RCV
elections wrong for DECADES, and only noticed the problem in 2022.
Simplicity and precinct summability matters.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[/quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">RCV’s brief definition is simple. RCV is simple, natural
& obvious.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">There’s a lot of mis-statement about “Precinct-Summability”,
& questionable-ness about what “Precinct Summability” is supposed to mean..<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Plurality, Approval & Score:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Candidates’ vote totals are summed in each precinct &
sent to a central count-place, where there’s a central tabulation.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">STAR:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Same, at first. Then the central counting place determines
the two top scorers, & then presumably sends that information to the
precincts, which still have the rankings, & the precincts each total the pairwise
votes for each of the finalists over the other, & they all send that back
to the central location, where the results are summed & the final winner
reported.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Condorcet:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Each precinct counts the preference votes for A over B,
& for B over A, for each of the N(N-1)/2 pairs {A,B}.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>…& those totals are sent in to the
central location, where the winner is determined according to the rules of
whatever Condorcet version is being used.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">RCV:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Each precinct counts the top-count score of each candidate,
& sends that in to the central location.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The central location totals that count for each candidate,
to determine which has lowest top-score, & sends that information back to
the precincts. <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Each precinct eliminates that candidate from its rankings,
& repeats the first line above.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Repeat till the central location finds that one candidate
tops most of the rankings.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">---<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Notice something similar about those?<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>Every one of those procedures requires counts
at the precincts, & also at the central location, & communication
between the two.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">How is RCV different?<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</span>It does such a procedure a number of times. That’s it. That’s the
difference.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">So it’s questionable regarding what is this “Precinct
Summability” that Plurailty, Approval, Score, STAR & Condorcet all have,
but RCV allegedly doesn’t have.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The same security measures, precautions & audits can be
done with RCV as with any of the other methods whose procedures are described
above.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Strategy-evaluation for Condorcet-complying pairwise-count
methods has proven to be complicated & more difficult than one would
expect.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[/quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">This I will agree with. That is why I've hopped on the
approval voting bandwagon for single-winner reform.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">[/quote]<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">That’s a bit hasty. Undeniably some of the pairwise-count
Condorcet-compliant methods thwart &/or deter offensive strategy so well
that it won’t be a problem, & the election of the sincere-CW will virtually
always be elected.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">There’s the argument that there are so many good Condorcet
versions that choosing between them is prohibitively problematic, preventing
the adoption of any of them.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">No, several of the best versions can be offered to a
proposal-committee, & it can discuss & evaluate them & then choose
a proposal.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…& there are a few obviously simplest proposals, making
the choice a lot less complicated & difficult than antii-Condorcetists
claim:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">MinMax:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Elect the candidate whose greatest defeat is the least.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(…implying the election of an unbeaten candidate when there
is one ( as there nearly always is) ).<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Condorcet//Approval:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Your ranking is counted as approving everyone you rank. If
no one is pairwise-unbeaten, then elect the most approved candidate.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Majority-Defeat Disquaification//Approval (MDDA):<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Your ranking is counted as approving everyone you rank. Elect
any unbeaten candidate. If there are none, then every majority pairwise-beaten
candidate is disqualified, & the un-disqualified candidate with most
approvals is elected.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(I’ve added a Condorcet-winner electing clause, because I
now feel that Condorcet’s failure-betrayal scenario is so rare &
unpredictable as to be irrelevant to strategy.)<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sequential-Pairwise:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Order the candidates in a list such that the ones topping
more rankings are listed below the ones topping fewer rankings.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Find the pairwise-winner among the top 2 candidates in the
ordering. Then find the pairwise winner between that winner & the next
candidate down the list.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>Condtinue until
you’ve found the winner of the then-current winner & the last candidate in
the list. S/he wins.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">----------<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I’d offer those 4 simple pairwise-count versions.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I’d also offer Approval, in case the jurisdiction either
couldn’t afford, or didn’t want to spend for, rank-balloting equipment &
software.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I’d also offer RCV & STAR, because some
proposal-committee members might prefer them.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I’d personally propose & justify the choice of a Pairwise-Count,
with RCV as next choice, & of course Approval if rank-balloting is
infeasible or rejected.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">If there were a ranked vote in the proposal committee, of
course my ranking would be:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">1. Some ordering of the above-listed four Pairwise-Count
methods<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">2. RCV<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">3. Approval if ranked-balloting is infeasible or rejected.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">-----<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Yes, I like Approval. Under different conditions, normal
conditions, it would be my suggestion, though STAR would then be okay too.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">But our voting-conditions are anything but normal.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">We always have a sleazy & corrupt POS “lesser”-evil,
& a dramatically-horrifying greater-evil.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</span>(…& some better candidates who, our media insist, are unwinnable, minor,
not-serious, candidates.)<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">We’re constantly told that the greater evil is the only bad
result, & so we have to support the “lesser-evil” against the greater-evil (…&
against our favorite).<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Always. <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">It’s always this same discouraging, dismal & hopeless
situation.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">That isn’t normal.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>It
certainly isn’t natural.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">So yes, I’d suggest Approval under normal conditions. But
our highly, bizarrely, abnormal & unnatural conditions require special
methods to deal with the (allegedly) hard choice between genuinely-wanted
outcomes, & odious dismal regrettable & deplorable “lesser” evils.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">For these conditions, we need something more powerfully-discriminating:
a rank-method, to let everyone vote all their preferences among as many
candidates as they want to.<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span>…to elicit
& count genuine favoriteness<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</span>immediately. <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(…not after several election-cycles, because a lot of harm
can be done in 4 years or 8 years.)<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">It’s like when, in _The Godfather_, Michael says to his
attorney:<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">…<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">“No, you’re a peacetime consiglieri, but right now we need a
wartime consiglieri.”<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></p>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
----<br>
Election-Methods mailing list - see <a href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electorama.com/em</a> for list info<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div>