<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Toby,<br>
</p>
<p>The Approval-enhanced IRV method I devised and presented is not a
"kludge", and even if it is I reject your insinuation that I have
been inconsistent or hypocritical.<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kludge">https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kludge</a><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><strong class="mw_t_bc" style="box-sizing:
border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian:
inherit; font-variant-alternates: inherit; font-weight:
bolder; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 19px; line-height:
inherit; font-family: "Open Sans", Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif; font-optical-sizing: inherit; font-kerning:
inherit; font-feature-settings: inherit;
font-variation-settings: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;
color: rgb(33, 37, 41); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">:<span> </span></strong><span
style="color: rgb(33, 37, 41); font-family: "Open
Sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 19px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline
!important; float: none;">a haphazard or makeshift solution to
a problem and especially to a computer or<span> </span></span><a
href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/programming"
class="mw_t_d_link" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin:
0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: inherit;
font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-alternates:
inherit; font-weight: 400; font-stretch: inherit; font-size:
19px; line-height: 28px; font-family: "Open Sans",
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-optical-sizing: inherit;
font-kerning: inherit; font-feature-settings: inherit;
font-variation-settings: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;
-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); outline: 0px;
color: rgb(0, 116, 204); text-decoration: none;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">programming</a><span
style="color: rgb(33, 37, 41); font-family: "Open
Sans", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 19px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
no-common-ligatures; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
white-space: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-thickness: initial; text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline
!important; float: none;"><span> </span>problem</span></blockquote>
<br>
<br>
STAR is a garbage method that has never been used and it appeals
to some people purely because it is simple (and because they think
IRV is bad and it's not IRV).<br>
<br>
A "kludge" for it is not so bad because it is a kludge, it is bad
idea because it is doing something with STAR other than pointing
out its flaws and rejecting it.<br>
<br>
IRV on the other hand is an old established method that is (at
least) quite good. Improving on it is difficult without
sacrificing some of the properties (or criterion<br>
compliances) it has that its many supporters like.<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/08/2023 11:44 pm, Toby Pereira
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1029300997.4990445.1692886454566@mail.yahoo.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="ydpa74a5025yahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Whether it's obstinacy or
not, it was because Chris criticised the idea of a STAR
"kludge" before presenting an IRV "kludge" less than two hours
later.</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">In any case, as I suggested
with your own STAR improvement previously, I'm not sure the
best improvement from a particular method is to first
determine the winner of the original method and then devise
some add-on.</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Toby</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydpa00eb977yahoo_quoted_3623643195"
class="ydpa00eb977yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Thursday, 24 August 2023 at 14:56:20 BST, Forest
Simmons <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:forest.simmons21@gmail.com"><forest.simmons21@gmail.com></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011">
<div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011gmail_attr">On
Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 12:29 AM Toby Pereira <<a
shape="rect" href="mailto:tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex;"
class="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011gmail_quote">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div dir="ltr">But of course, as with STAR,
any complex add-on to the method is
unlikely to ever be adopted, regardless of
how much better it is in theory...</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>When an improvement like this one is suggested
along with examples of the problem it fixes and an
explanation of why those examples were not just
lucky flukes ... why am I always surprised at the
resistance to any thought about the possibility of
change?</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>There has to be a better explanation than pure
obstinacy ... right?</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>fws </div>
<div id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011yqtfd30267"
class="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011yqt0320555635">
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div class="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011gmail_quote">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex;"
class="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011gmail_quote">
<div>
<div
id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011m_-7140212738267861014ydp8e6af83byahoo_quoted_3112589713">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
<div
id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011m_-7140212738267861014ydp8e6af83byiv3464255226">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div
id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011m_-7140212738267861014ydp8e6af83byiv3464255226yqtfd39229"><br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</blockquote>
<div
id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011m_-7140212738267861014ydp8e6af83byiv3464255226yqtfd58011">
</div>
</div>
<div
id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011m_-7140212738267861014ydp8e6af83byiv3464255226yqtfd35658">
</div>
</div>
<div
id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011m_-7140212738267861014ydp8e6af83byiv3464255226yqtfd95548">
</div>
</div>
<div
id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011m_-7140212738267861014ydp8e6af83byiv3464255226yqtfd29615">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011yqtfd12009"
class="ydpa00eb977yiv9282718011yqt0320555635">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>