<div dir="auto">Since it seems we must proceed by one-at-a-time elimination, and a covered winner is an embarrassment, why not proceed with normal IRV elimination until all but one of the remaining candidates are covered?<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In other words, elect the last standing uncovered candidate.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The advantage over Benham is avoiding mention of Condorcet, a loaded word with lots of bias against it in the RCV/IRV community.<br><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-Forest</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 7, 2022, 9:23 AM Richard, the VoteFair guy <<a href="mailto:electionmethods@votefair.org">electionmethods@votefair.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">IRV can be modified easily, without switching to an entirely different <br>
method, which is what the article authors suggest.<br>
<br>
A much simpler -- and fairer -- change to IRV is to eliminate a pairwise <br>
losing candidate during the top-three round, even if a different <br>
candidate has the fewest "transferred" votes.<br>
<br>
Sarah Palin was the pairwise losing candidate (in the top-three round) <br>
in the recent special Alaska election. Eliminating her instead of <br>
Begich (who had the fewest transferred votes) would have yielded a <br>
"head-to-head matchup" between Peltola and Begich. Then the <br>
majority-supported Begich would have won.<br>
<br>
This improvement to IRV, along with counting multiple marks in the same <br>
"choice" column, is the RCIPE -- Ranked Choice Including Pairwise <br>
Elimination -- method:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Ranked_Choice_Including_Pairwise_Elimination" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electowiki.org/wiki/Ranked_Choice_Including_Pairwise_Elimination</a><br>
<br>
As a clarification, the RCIPE method eliminates pairwise losing <br>
candidates when they occur, but the simpler version described above only <br>
looks at the top-three round.<br>
<br>
If someone wants to argue that pairwise elimination should also be used <br>
during the top-four round, or invoked based on some other criteria, that <br>
works too.<br>
<br>
The advantage of limiting the pairwise elimination to the final rounds <br>
is faster vote counting on election night. That's because the sequence <br>
of elimination for minor can't-win candidates does not need to be <br>
calculated on election night. (That exact sequence can be calculated <br>
later.)<br>
<br>
My point is that although I and others here have a strong dislike of <br>
IRV, the idea of eliminating candidates one by one is widely understood, <br>
and it's easy to understand for typical voters, so it's worth <br>
considering simple improvements to IRV for use in real elections.<br>
<br>
Later, when voters have experience using ranked choice ballots, and when <br>
more voters understand some of the details we discuss in this forum, <br>
elections can switch to other, better counting methods.<br>
<br>
Richard Fobes<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11/7/2022 6:06 AM, Bob Richard (lists) wrote:<br>
> I'm not completely sure, but I think the method they are describing is <br>
> Baldwin<br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Baldwin%27s_method" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electowiki.org/wiki/Baldwin%27s_method</a> <br>
> <<a href="https://electowiki.org/wiki/Baldwin%27s_method" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electowiki.org/wiki/Baldwin%27s_method</a>><br>
> <br>
> If I understand them correctly, the main advantage they see is the <br>
> purely practical one that it can be sold as a modification of IRV rather <br>
> than something different from IRV.<br>
> <br>
> --Bob Richard<br>
> <br>
> ------ Original Message ------<br>
> From: "Hahn, Paul" <<a href="mailto:manynote@wustl.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">manynote@wustl.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:manynote@wustl.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">manynote@wustl.edu</a>>><br>
> To: "<a href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a>>" <br>
> <<a href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a>>><br>
> Sent: 11/7/2022 1:40:36 AM<br>
> Subject: Re: [EM] Fwd: Election-methods messages not being posted<br>
> <br>
>> To me that description sounds like Borda.<br>
>><br>
>> --pH<br>
>><br>
>>> On Nov 7, 2022, at 3:09 AM, Rob Lanphier <<a href="mailto:roblan@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">roblan@gmail.com</a> <br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:roblan@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">roblan@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> <br>
>>> Ralph asked me to forward this message to the list....<br>
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------<br>
>>> Subject: "Total Vote Runoff" proposed as better way to determine <br>
>>> ranked-choice winners<br>
>>> Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 13:13:21 -0500<br>
>>> From: Ralph Suter <<a href="mailto:RLSuter@aol.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RLSuter@aol.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:RLSuter@aol.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RLSuter@aol.com</a>><br>
>>> To: <a href="mailto:election-methods-request@lists.electorama.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">election-methods-request@lists.electorama.com</a> <br>
>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:election-methods-request@lists.electorama.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">election-methods-request@lists.electorama.com</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> In a Washington Post opinion article published today (11/2/2022), <br>
>>> election law scholar Edward Foley and economist (and Nobel laureate) <br>
>>> Erik Maskin propose a "tweak" to correct what they describe a flaw in <br>
>>> how ranked choice winners are currently determined. They call the <br>
>>> resulting election method a "total Vote Runoff".<br>
>>><br>
>>> Would anyone like to comment? It appears they are essentially <br>
>>> proposing replacing instant run-off voting with Condorcet voting.<br>
>>><br>
>>> -Ralph Suter<br>
>>><br>
>>> ---------------------------------<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Alaska’s ranked-choice voting is flawed. But there’s an easy fix.<br>
>>><br>
>>> By Edward B. Foley <br>
>>> <<a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fpeople%2Fedward-b-foley%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmanynote%40wustl.edu%7Cfa133c67c4dc47f95e4b08dac09fb788%7C4ccca3b571cd4e6d974b4d9beb96c6d6%7C0%7C0%7C638034089901705981%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CWW9yLx9%2BiXydFJ0Z3t40zdmCxJOdDSIM9DJMmxRBjc%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fpeople%2Fedward-b-foley%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmanynote%40wustl.edu%7Cfa133c67c4dc47f95e4b08dac09fb788%7C4ccca3b571cd4e6d974b4d9beb96c6d6%7C0%7C0%7C638034089901705981%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CWW9yLx9%2BiXydFJ0Z3t40zdmCxJOdDSIM9DJMmxRBjc%3D&reserved=0</a>>andEric S. Maskin<br>
>>> November 1, 2022 at 7:00 a.m. EDT<br>
>>> <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/11/01/alaska-final-four-primary-begich-palin-peltola/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/11/01/alaska-final-four-primary-begich-palin-peltola/</a> <<a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fopinions%2F2022%2F11%2F01%2Falaska-final-four-primary-begich-palin-peltola%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmanynote%40wustl.edu%7Cfa133c67c4dc47f95e4b08dac09fb788%7C4ccca3b571cd4e6d974b4d9beb96c6d6%7C0%7C0%7C638034089901862217%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZyjYWk4PJuT%2FGrW3L4%2Bh6Q%2BOGx6rWpwSmh6wiQcDyI4%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fopinions%2F2022%2F11%2F01%2Falaska-final-four-primary-begich-palin-peltola%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmanynote%40wustl.edu%7Cfa133c67c4dc47f95e4b08dac09fb788%7C4ccca3b571cd4e6d974b4d9beb96c6d6%7C0%7C0%7C638034089901862217%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZyjYWk4PJuT%2FGrW3L4%2Bh6Q%2BOGx6rWpwSmh6wiQcDyI4%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Excerpt:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Alaska’s special election in August for the House of Representatives <br>
>>> was heralded as a triumph for ranked-choice voting, because MAGA <br>
>>> favorite Sarah Palin, a personification of polarization, could not <br>
>>> attract enough second-choice votes from moderate Republican Nick <br>
>>> Begich’s supporters to win.<br>
>>><br>
>>> That’s true. But the way Alaska uses ranked-choice voting also caused <br>
>>> the defeat of Begich, whom most Alaska voters preferred to Democrat <br>
>>> Mary Peltola, the candidate who ended up winning.<br>
>>><br>
>>> This anomalous outcome, contrary to the principle that the majority’s <br>
>>> preference should prevail, would be easily remedied by one small change.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The key to ranked-choice voting is that a voter lists the candidates <br>
>>> in order of preference, starting with their favorite, rather than <br>
>>> naming just that favorite. The problem in Alaska — and other <br>
>>> ranked-choice systems now in use, from Maine to San Francisco —**is <br>
>>> the rule for eliminating candidates when no one gets a majority of <br>
>>> first-place votes. By tweaking this rule, Alaska’s system would <br>
>>> become more palatable to Republicans and Democrats alike, and more <br>
>>> likely to be adopted across the country.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Begich was eliminated because he had the fewest first-place votes. <br>
>>> That seems logical at first glance. But the flaw in this outcome — <br>
>>> and why Republicans have reason to be resentful — is that a majority <br>
>>> of voters would have favored Begich had the race come down to a <br>
>>> head-to-head matchup against either Peltola (52 percent to 48 <br>
>>> percent) or Palin (61 percent to 39 percent). He lost only because it <br>
>>> was a three-way race.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Here’s how to fix the flaw. If Alaska eliminated the candidate with <br>
>>> the fewest /total/ votes, rather than the fewest /first-place/ votes, <br>
>>> the ranked-choice system would be sure to elect a candidate such as <br>
>>> Begich who defeats all rivals in one-on-one matchups.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Call it a “Total Vote Runoff.” A candidate’s total votes in such a <br>
>>> system would be determined by the number of other candidates he or <br>
>>> she is ranked above. For example, when a candidate is ranked first on <br>
>>> a ballot in an election involving three candidates, then this <br>
>>> first-choice candidate is ranked above two other candidates and gets <br>
>>> two votes from this ballot.<br>
>>><br>
>>> When that same candidate is ranked second on another ballot, the <br>
>>> candidate is favored over only one other candidate and would receive <br>
>>> only one vote from that ballot.<br>
>>><br>
>>> A candidate ranked last on a ballot, or not ranked at all, is not <br>
>>> favored over anyone and gets no votes from that ballot.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Calculating the number of votes that a candidate gets on each ballot <br>
>>> — two, one or zero — and adding up the candidate’s votes from all the <br>
>>> ballots yields the candidate’s total votes.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Using this method, we can identify the number of ballots on which <br>
>>> each of Alaska’s three candidates was ranked first or second and then <br>
>>> calculate each candidate’s total votes (there were only three <br>
>>> candidates in the House special election):<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Alaska House results using total vote runoff<br>
>>><br>
>>> *First-place votes get counted twice because voters put their<br>
>>> first choice ahead of two other candidates.*<br>
>>><br>
>>> Column 1: Candidate<br>
>>> Column 2: first-place votes<br>
>>> Column 3: first-place votes, counted again<br>
>>> Column 4: second-place votes<br>
>>> Column 5: Overall Total<br>
>>><br>
>>> Begich 53,810 53,810 81,253 188,873<br>
>>> Peltola 75,799 75,799 19,024 170,622<br>
>>> Palin 58,973 58,973 31,611 149,557<br>
>>><br>
>>> Source: Alaska official results, Alaska cast vote records, MIT<br>
>>> Election Data and Science Lab, Election Law at Ohio State, author<br>
>>> calculations<br>
>>> <<a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elections.alaska.gov%2Fresults%2F22SSPG%2FRcvDetailedReport.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Cmanynote%40wustl.edu%7Cfa133c67c4dc47f95e4b08dac09fb788%7C4ccca3b571cd4e6d974b4d9beb96c6d6%7C0%7C0%7C638034089901862217%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6dJZaB3lo5EwSDENGHGYX4Uugjg3tUL8EWl3moGfUMM%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elections.alaska.gov%2Fresults%2F22SSPG%2FRcvDetailedReport.pdf&data=05%7C01%7Cmanynote%40wustl.edu%7Cfa133c67c4dc47f95e4b08dac09fb788%7C4ccca3b571cd4e6d974b4d9beb96c6d6%7C0%7C0%7C638034089901862217%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6dJZaB3lo5EwSDENGHGYX4Uugjg3tUL8EWl3moGfUMM%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Palin had the fewest total votes, so she would have been the first <br>
>>> candidate eliminated in a “Total Vote Runoff” tweak to RCV.<br>
>>><br>
>>> With Palin eliminated, the race would have been between Begich and <br>
>>> Peltola. Because a majority preferred Begich to Peltola, he would <br>
>>> have been elected. Total Vote Runoff captures the will of the <br>
>>> majority more accurately than Alaska’s current elimination system does.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Republicans should like Total Vote Runoff because its procedure would <br>
>>> help ameliorate the “candidate quality <br>
>>> <<a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fpolitics%2F2022-election%2Fmcconnell-says-republicans-may-not-win-senate-control-citing-candidate-rcna43777&data=05%7C01%7Cmanynote%40wustl.edu%7Cfa133c67c4dc47f95e4b08dac09fb788%7C4ccca3b571cd4e6d974b4d9beb96c6d6%7C0%7C0%7C638034089901862217%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1dl8uetLcUijN9N%2FRjbloioH7ytYSJmANmk8JrAyZZs%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fpolitics%2F2022-election%2Fmcconnell-says-republicans-may-not-win-senate-control-citing-candidate-rcna43777&data=05%7C01%7Cmanynote%40wustl.edu%7Cfa133c67c4dc47f95e4b08dac09fb788%7C4ccca3b571cd4e6d974b4d9beb96c6d6%7C0%7C0%7C638034089901862217%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1dl8uetLcUijN9N%2FRjbloioH7ytYSJmANmk8JrAyZZs%3D&reserved=0</a>>” problem that plagues their party, as Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) lamented. A candidate popular only with the party’s base would be eliminated early in a Total Vote Runoff, leaving a more broadly popular Republican to compete against a Democrat.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Democrats, too, should welcome Total Runoff Voting to protect against <br>
>>> losses caused by excessively progressive candidates who are <br>
>>> unacceptable to a large portion of independent voters. Alaska-style <br>
>>> ranked-choice voting might keep in contention a left-wing candidate <br>
>>> whose first-place votes reflect enthusiastic but limited support, but <br>
>>> Total Runoff Voting would promote Democratic candidates whose wide <br>
>>> appeal makes them more competitive overall.<br>
>>><br>
>>> ----<br>
>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see <a href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electorama.com/em</a> <br>
>>> <<a href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electorama.com/em</a>> for list info<br>
> <br>
> ----<br>
> Election-Methods mailing list - see <a href="https://electorama.com/em" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://electorama.com/em</a> for list info<br>
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</blockquote></div>