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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Thank you, Richard,</font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Please let me seek more clarification by responding inline below:</font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">On 06/05/2022 12:07, Richard Lung wrote:</font></font></p>
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Thank you, Steve,</p>
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R: I don't need to deny. Categories impose meaning, the voters may not share, …</p>
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S: Because voters always have the option of imposing their own meanings on any response method any election may offers, they are free to respond (vote) in any way they might choose. As you know, after
<font color="#000000">Miller, G. A. [(1956). The magical number seven, plus or minus two: some limits on our capacity for processing information. Psychological Review 63 (2), 81],
</font>Balinski and Laraki decide on their six categories aiming to provide a common expressive language that can be used by all citizens. Are they mistaken in thinking that all citizens already use and have their own understandings of these six labels? As
I see it, MJ and EPR simply offer six widely understood subjective judgment categories from which to choose. How can be inappropriately limiting?</p>
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R: …. and an alternative 6 orders of choice are simply not enough. That is problem enough.</p>
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S: B&L also accept that some specialists are able to distinguish between more than six levels of value. EPR only invites all citizens to use at least one of these six. Thisl allows every citizen more informatively to communicate their different subjective judgments
about the different candidates than using any less publicly defined numbers could. I’m I mistaken?</p>
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R: As a rule, claims to 100% PR impose rather than elicit it.</blockquote>
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S: Given the above, it seems to me that EPR “elicits” 100% proportional representation.</blockquote>
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R: I have said that FAB STV uses all (100%) of the preferential information, for a complete dimension of choice.</p>
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S: Like ordinary STV, can FAB STV’s count eliminate (“exclude”) any candidate before all the winners have been determined? If so, some of the voters’ ballots could fail to assist the election of any candidate. When so, less than 100% of the votes cast are proportional
represented in the council. What do you think?</p>
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R: Since elections must exclude, as well as elect, candidates, binomial STV also has a rational exclusion count. And rationally quota counting abstentions measures how much voters actually choose or reject candidates.</p>
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S: Can you easily define how an “abstention”, “exclusion”, and “how much voters actually choose or reject candidates” are “rationally” determined, or are these definitions among the elements of FAB STV’s count which you freely admit will not be fully understood
by most people?</p>
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Regards,</blockquote>
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Steve</blockquote>
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<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" class="elementToProof" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Richard Lung <voting@ukscientists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 6, 2022 10:13 AM<br>
</font></div>
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class="elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>To:</b> steve bosworth <stevebosworth@hotmail.com>; EM <election-methods@lists.electorama.com><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Subject:</b> Re: Fw: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44 (subjective meaning of grades)</font>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix elementToProof">On 06/05/2022 12:07, Richard Lung wrote:<br>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="elementToProof">Thank you, Steve,</p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="elementToProof">I don't need to deny. Categories impose meaning, the voters may not share, and an alternative 6 orders of choice are simply not enough. That is problem enough.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">As a rule, claims to 100% PR impose rather than elicit it.
<br>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="elementToProof">I have said that FAB STV uses all (100%) of the preferential information, for a complete dimension of choice. Since elections must exclude, as well as elect, candidates, binomial STV also
has a rational exclusion count. And rationally quota counting abstentions measures how much voters actually choose or reject candidates.<br>
</p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Regards,</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="elementToProof">Richard Lung.</p>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 06/05/2022 06:56, steve bosworth wrote:<br>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class="x_elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> steve bosworth
<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<stevebosworth@hotmail.com></a><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 4, 2022 11:55 PM<br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="x_elementToProof elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>To:</b> Richard Lung
<a href="mailto:voting@ukscientists.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<voting@ukscientists.com></a><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44 (subjective meaning of grades)</font>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Richard,</font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Thank you for your reply.<br>
</font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">1) Please correct me if I’m mistaken but I don’t think you want to deny that the grades Excellent, Very Good, Good, Acceptable, Poor, and Reject are nominal, nor that they can easily be
translated into an ordinal scale of 6.</font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">2) Nor, do you deny that the six numbers that might be used by themselves would have much less meaning than these verbal grades on their own to express each citizen’s subjective evaluation
of the candidates. This is not to deny that such numbers could acquire something like this clarity if and when they are explicitly defined with regard to these words, or otherwise verbally defined. Similarly, they could acquire ever clearer meanings as a result
of being used for many years in a particular school or university, like letter grades from A to F are often used now.</font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">3) It is in this subjective sense that the use of verbal grades seem to be socially more meaningful and informative than any pure numbers. Do you agree?</font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">4) In the light of the green print on page 3 of the attachment previously sent, do you see any problem with the rules by which evaluative proportional representation (EPR) adds and subtracts
all the grades given by all citizens to all candidates in order to determine which seven candidates are elected to the city council?</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">5) If your FAB STV method were used instead, could it match EPR’s claim of such a council proportionally representing 100% of all the votes cast?</font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">What do you think?</font></font><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><font class="x_x_elementToProof" style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Richard Lung
<a href="mailto:voting@ukscientists.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<voting@ukscientists.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 4, 2022 11:31 AM<br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="x_x_elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>To:</b> steve bosworth
<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<stevebosworth@hotmail.com></a><br>
</font></div>
<div id="x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class="x_x_elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Cc:</b>
<a href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated x_moz-txt-link-freetext">
election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a> <a href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<election-methods@lists.electorama.com></a><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="x_x_elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44</font>
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<div class="x_x_elementToProof">Steve,</div>
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<div class="x_x_elementToProof">Thanks for reply. A basic objection to graded classes is that it takes ordered numbers to complete the transition from the classificatory scale to the ordinal scale, in S S Stevens widely accepted scales of measurement, in the
sciences: nominal, ordinal, interval, ratio scales. The vote should be an ordered number vote. (Its classificatory scale is one person one vote.) The count is an interval scale and a ratio scale count.</div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof"> The ordinal scale founds, in the sciences, sufficiently advanced, an orderly transition to the two most powerful scales. </div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof">The stripped-down version of FAB STV, is simple enough to enable a Binomial STV hand count, and can elect single members, as mentioned, using a rational exclusion count, as well as a rational election count. </div>
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<div class="x_x_elementToProof">Regards,</div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof">Richard Lung.</div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof"><br>
On 3 May 2022, at 9:30 pm, steve bosworth <<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">stevebosworth@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Re:
<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44</font></font></font></font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Richard, </font>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Sorry, with you initially starting out with President Macron, I mistakenly responded to your argument for FAB STV as if you were proposing it as a single-winner method. However, your most
recent post copied below now makes it clear that you instead see it as a superior multi-winner method. Thank you.</font></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">In this light, I would like to ask you to compare FAB STV with the multi-winner method my co-authors and I call evaluative proportional representation
(EPR – </font></font><em><a href="https://www.jpolrisk.com/legislatures-elected-by-evaluative-proportional-representation-epr-an-algorithm-v3/" data-auth="NotApplicable"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><span style="font-style:normal">https://www.jpolrisk.com/legislatures-elected-by-evaluative-proportional-representation-epr-an-algorithm-v3/</span></font></font></a></em><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">).
We see EPR as an improved version of </font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">ordinary
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">STV that follows MJ by inviting citizens to rank candidates more informatively
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">instead
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">by grading them – grading their suitability for office as either Excellent, Very Good, Good, Acceptable, Poor, or Reject. We have also updated
</font></font><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">the</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">above 2020</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">
article in a </font></font><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><i>Paper</i></font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"> that I would be happy to email to
an</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">y</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"> EM reader upon request (<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">stevebosworth@hotmail.com</a>).</font></font></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">I see EPR as also fully satisfying your desire to</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">
include the judgments of the whole electorate in the count to the fullest extent possible to avoid *any … minim</font></font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">ally democratic ... binary choice*
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">as you put it</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">.</font></font></font></p>
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</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">With regard to FAB STV,</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I am happy to assume
that </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">it</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> provides this benefit much more
than plurality and ordinary STV does. </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">At the same time,
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">please</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> tell me how the results of an FAB
STV election at-large of a seven-member city council </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">would</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
compare with </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">the following results that an EPR election guarantees: every citizens’ ballot equally adds to the voting power (weighted vote) in the council
of the elected candidate each sees as likely to represent their hopes and concerns most accurately. This winner will have received either this citizen’s highest grade, remaining highest grade, or proxy vote. Consequently, every citizen’s vote cast i</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">s</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
equally represented in the council </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">quantitatively</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">.
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly how EPR offer</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">s
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">these democratic benefits is described in the above mentioned available
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"><i>Paper</i></font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">.</font></font></font></p>
<p class="x_x_elementToProof" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none
repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">You (</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">Richard</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">)</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
freely warn reader</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">s</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> that most
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">of them may not</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> be able
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">fully
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">to understand the complex steps by which an FAB STV election would be counted.
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">In contrast,
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">my co-authors and I believe that</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> anyone who
can count, add, and subtract whole </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">numbers</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
will be able to unde</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">r</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">stand exactly how an
EPR </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">election
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">is counted.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">I look forward to our dialogues.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve</font></font></font></p>
</b></font></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Richard Lung <voting@ukscientists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 6, 2022 10:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> steve bosworth <stevebosworth@hotmail.com>; EM <election-methods@lists.electorama.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Fw: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44 (subjective meaning of grades)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 06/05/2022 12:07, Richard Lung wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Thank you, Steve,</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">I don't need to deny. Categories impose meaning, the voters may not share, and an alternative 6 orders of choice are simply not enough. That is problem enough.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">As a rule, claims to 100% PR impose rather than elicit it.
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">I have said that FAB STV uses all (100%) of the preferential information, for a complete dimension of choice. Since elections must exclude, as well as elect, candidates, binomial STV also has a rational exclusion
count. And rationally quota counting abstentions measures how much voters actually choose or reject candidates.<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Regards,</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Richard Lung.</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><br>
</p>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 06/05/2022 06:56, steve bosworth wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="x_elementToProof" style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class="x_elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> steve bosworth
<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<stevebosworth@hotmail.com></a><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 4, 2022 11:55 PM<br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="x_elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>To:</b> Richard Lung
<a href="mailto:voting@ukscientists.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<voting@ukscientists.com></a><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44 (subjective meaning of grades)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="x_x_elementToProof" style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Richard,</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><br>
</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Thank you for your reply.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">1) Please correct me if I’m mistaken but I don’t think you want to deny that the grades Excellent, Very Good, Good, Acceptable, Poor, and Reject are nominal, nor that they can easily be
translated into an ordinal scale of 6.</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">2) Nor, do you deny that the six numbers that might be used by themselves would have much less meaning than these verbal grades on their own to express each citizen’s subjective evaluation
of the candidates. This is not to deny that such numbers could acquire something like this clarity if and when they are explicitly defined with regard to these words, or otherwise verbally defined. Similarly, they could acquire ever clearer meanings as a result
of being used for many years in a particular school or university, like letter grades from A to F are often used now.</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">3) It is in this subjective sense that the use of verbal grades seem to be socially more meaningful and informative than any pure numbers. Do you agree?</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">4) In the light of the green print on page 3 of the attachment previously sent, do you see any problem with the rules by which evaluative proportional representation (EPR) adds and subtracts
all the grades given by all citizens to all candidates in order to determine which seven candidates are elected to the city council?</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">5) If your FAB STV method were used instead, could it match EPR’s claim of such a council proportionally representing 100% of all the votes cast?</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><br>
</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">What do you think?</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div dir="ltr"><font class="x_x_elementToProof" style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Richard Lung
<a href="mailto:voting@ukscientists.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<voting@ukscientists.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 4, 2022 11:31 AM<br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="x_x_elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>To:</b> steve bosworth
<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<stevebosworth@hotmail.com></a><br>
</font></div>
<div id="x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class="x_x_elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Cc:</b>
<a href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated x_moz-txt-link-freetext">
election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a> <a href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E">
<election-methods@lists.electorama.com></a><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="x_x_elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44</font>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="x_x_elementToProof"> </div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="x_x_elementToProof">Steve,</div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof">Thanks for reply. A basic objection to graded classes is that it takes ordered numbers to complete the transition from the classificatory scale to the ordinal scale, in S S Stevens widely accepted scales of measurement, in the
sciences: nominal, ordinal, interval, ratio scales. The vote should be an ordered number vote. (Its classificatory scale is one person one vote.) The count is an interval scale and a ratio scale count.</div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof"> The ordinal scale founds, in the sciences, sufficiently advanced, an orderly transition to the two most powerful scales. </div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof">The stripped-down version of FAB STV, is simple enough to enable a Binomial STV hand count, and can elect single members, as mentioned, using a rational exclusion count, as well as a rational election count. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof">Regards,</div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof">Richard Lung.</div>
<div class="x_x_elementToProof"><br>
On 3 May 2022, at 9:30 pm, steve bosworth <<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">stevebosworth@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b class="x_x_x_elementToProof">
<p class="x_x_elementToProof" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none
repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Re:
<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44</font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><br>
</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Richard, </font>
</font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Sorry, with you initially starting out with President Macron, I mistakenly responded to your argument for FAB STV as if you were proposing it as a single-winner method. However, your most
recent post copied below now makes it clear that you instead see it as a superior multi-winner method. Thank you.</font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">In this light, I would like to ask you to compare FAB STV with the multi-winner method my co-authors and I call evaluative proportional representation
(EPR – </font></font><em><a href="https://www.jpolrisk.com/legislatures-elected-by-evaluative-proportional-representation-epr-an-algorithm-v3/" data-auth="NotApplicable"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><span style="font-style:normal">https://www.jpolrisk.com/legislatures-elected-by-evaluative-proportional-representation-epr-an-algorithm-v3/</span></font></font></a></em><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">).
We see EPR as an improved version of </font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">ordinary
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">STV that follows MJ by inviting citizens to rank candidates more informatively
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">instead
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">by grading them – grading their suitability for office as either Excellent, Very Good, Good, Acceptable, Poor, or Reject. We have also updated
</font></font><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">the</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">above 2020</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">
article in a </font></font><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><i>Paper</i></font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"> that I would be happy to email to
an</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">y</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"> EM reader upon request (<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext">stevebosworth@hotmail.com</a>).</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">I see EPR as also fully satisfying your desire to</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">
include the judgments of the whole electorate in the count to the fullest extent possible to avoid *any … minim</font></font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">ally democratic ... binary choice*
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">as you put it</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">With regard to FAB STV,</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I am happy to assume
that </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">it</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> provides this benefit much more
than plurality and ordinary STV does. </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">At the same time,
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">please</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> tell me how the results of an FAB
STV election at-large of a seven-member city council </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">would</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
compare with </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">the following results that an EPR election guarantees: every citizens’ ballot equally adds to the voting power (weighted vote) in the council
of the elected candidate each sees as likely to represent their hopes and concerns most accurately. This winner will have received either this citizen’s highest grade, remaining highest grade, or proxy vote. Consequently, every citizen’s vote cast i</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">s</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
equally represented in the council </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">quantitatively</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">.
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly how EPR offer</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">s
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">these democratic benefits is described in the above mentioned available
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"><i>Paper</i></font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">.</font></font></font></p>
<p class="x_x_elementToProof" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none
repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">You (</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">Richard</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">)</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
freely warn reader</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">s</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> that most
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">of them may not</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> be able
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">fully
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">to understand the complex steps by which an FAB STV election would be counted.
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">In contrast,
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">my co-authors and I believe that</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif"> anyone who
can count, add, and subtract whole </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">numbers</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">
will be able to unde</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">r</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">stand exactly how an
EPR </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">election
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">is counted.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">I look forward to our dialogues.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">
<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve</font></font></font></p>
</b></font></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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