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<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> steve bosworth <stevebosworth@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 3, 2022 1:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Richard Lung <voting@ukscientists.com><br>
</font></div>
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class="elementToProof"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44</font>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Re: <font color="#000000">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest, Vol 213, Issue 44</font></font></font></font></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Richard, </font>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">Sorry, with you initially starting out with President Macron, I mistakenly responded to your argument for FAB STV as if you were proposing it as a single-winner method. However, your most
recent post copied below now makes it clear that you instead see it as a superior multi-winner method. Thank you.</font></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">In this light, I would like to ask you to compare FAB STV with the multi-winner method my co-authors and I call evaluative proportional representation
(EPR – </font></font><em><a href="https://www.jpolrisk.com/legislatures-elected-by-evaluative-proportional-representation-epr-an-algorithm-v3/" data-auth="NotApplicable"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><span style="font-style:normal">https://www.jpolrisk.com/legislatures-elected-by-evaluative-proportional-representation-epr-an-algorithm-v3/</span></font></font></a></em><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">).
We see EPR as an improved version of </font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">ordinary
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">STV that follows MJ by inviting citizens to rank candidates more informatively
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">instead
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">by grading them – grading their suitability for office as either Excellent, Very Good, Good, Acceptable, Poor, or Reject. We have also updated
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">the
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">above 2020</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"> article in a
</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"><i>Paper</i></font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3"> that I would be happy to email to an</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">y</font></font><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">
EM reader upon request (<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com" data-auth="NotApplicable">stevebosworth@hotmail.com</a>).</font></font></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">I see EPR as also fully satisfying your desire to</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:12pt" size="3">
include the judgments of the whole electorate in the count to the fullest extent possible to avoid *any … minim</font></font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">ally democratic ... binary choice*
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">as you put it</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">.</font></font></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">With regard to FAB STV,</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I am happy to assume that
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">it</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> provides this benefit much more than plurality and ordinary STV does.
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">At the same time,
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">please</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> tell me how the results of an FAB STV election at-large of a seven-member city council
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">would</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> compare with
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">the following results that an EPR election guarantees: every citizens’ ballot equally adds to the voting power (weighted vote) in the council of the elected candidate each sees
as likely to represent their hopes and concerns most accurately. This winner will have received either this citizen’s highest grade, remaining highest grade, or proxy vote. Consequently, every citizen’s vote cast i</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">s</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">
equally represented in the council </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">quantitatively</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">.
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly how EPR offer</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">s
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">these democratic benefits is described in the above mentioned available
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><i>Paper</i></font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">.</font></font></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">You (</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">Richard</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">)</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">
freely warn reader</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">s</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> that most
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">of them may not</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> be able
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">fully
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">to understand the complex steps by which an FAB STV election would be counted.
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">In contrast,
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">my co-authors and I believe that</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> anyone who can count, add, and subtract whole
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">numbers</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"> will be able to unde</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">r</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">stand
exactly how an EPR </font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">election
</font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">is counted.</font></font></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">I look forward to our dialogues.</font></font></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><b>From:</b> Richard Lung <voting@ukscientists.com></font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 2, 2022 11:16 AM</font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><b>To:</b> steve bosworth <stevebosworth@hotmail.com><br>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><b>Subject:</b></font></font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"> Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest,
Vol 213, Issue 44</font></font></font></p>
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Steve,</p>
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Single winner elections are the least democratic; they give too much power to one person. A problem of peace is how to get politicians away from the fixation with the monarchic principle. Lord Hailsham, in The Dilemma of Democracy, said Britain is an "elective
dictatorship". This serves as a definition of a tyranny, in the classic Greek sense.</p>
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FAB STV is a system designed for a democratic minimum representation of a 4 or 5 member district. I was asked for a hand count version, which is much simpler, and I just call Binomial STV. It involves an election count divided by an exclusion count of all candidates
keep values. This does away with haphazardly eliminating candidates, when the surplus transfers run out.</p>
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All the preference information is counted, including abstentions. This measures one whole dimension of choice, which, as far as I know, is unique in election methods.</p>
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Regards,</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-bottom:0in; line-height:115%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%" class="elementToProof">
Richard Lung.</p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:14pt" size="4">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>></font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><b>From:</b> Richard Lung <voting@ukscientists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 1, 2022 4:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> steve bosworth <stevebosworth@hotmail.com></font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><b>Cc:</b> election-methods@lists.electorama.com <election-methods@lists.electorama.com><br>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"><b>Subject:</b></font></font></font><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2"> Re: [EM] Election-Methods Digest,
Vol 213, Issue 44</font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Richard,
</font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">I agree with your desire to have as many citizens as possible in addition to a majority to help determine the single winner – to include the judgments of
the whole electorate in the count to the fullest extent possible to avoid *any … minimally democratic ... binary choice*.Also, I am happy to assume that FAB STV provides this benefit much more than plurality and ordinary STV does.
</font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">At the same time, do you agree that MJ also does this to some extent in that the median grade received by each candidate is equally determined by all the
grades given to all the candidates by all the citizens? Also, am I correct in assuming that you agree that MJ’s counting method for determining the median-grade winner is much easier for people to understand than all the calculations needed to determine the
FAB STV winner? My summary of this MJ count is as follows:</font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:14pt" size="4">The MJ winner is the one who receives an absolute majority of all the grades equal to, or higher than, the highest
<i>median grade</i> given to any candidate. This median grade can be found as follows:</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-bottom:0.27in; line-height:100%; background:#ffffff; margin-top:0.19in">
<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:14pt" size="4">1. Place all the grades given to each candidate, high to low, left to right in a row, with the name of each candidate on the left of each row.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:#ffffff; margin-top:0.19in" class="elementToProof">
<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:14pt" size="4">2. The median grade for each candidate is in the middle of each row. Specifically, the middle grade for an odd number of voters, or the grade on the right
in the middle for an even number of voters.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:#ffffff; margin-top:0.19in">
<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:14pt" size="4">3. If more than one candidate has the same highest median grade, the MJ winner is discovered by removing, one by one, any grades equal in value to the current
highest median grade from each tied candidate’s total until only one of the tied candidates has the highest remaining median grade.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:#ffffff; margin-top:0.19in" class="elementToProof">
<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Balinski sees the six grades Excellent to Reject as easy to use. They are intellectual creations which can be *given very careful definitions* and that become
more meaningful and precise with the passage of time and use. They have *no meaning other than what is ascribed to them by their users* (pp. 166-169). Such intellectual *creations must always remain a work in progress* (pp.168-70).
</font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">However, where we currently seem to disagree is over the validity of your claim that * Ranked choice ... uses a more powerful scale of measurement* when
compared with MJ. Presumably, regardless of the voting method an election uses (plurality, IRV (simply ranking the candidates), approval, range, or MJ), each citizen when voting is trying to express their judgments about the degree one or more of the candidates
is suitable for the office according to their own perspective. FAB STV is a variety of IRV and so your claim is that rankings provide a more “powerful measure” of these judgments than does MJ’s grades – that rankings are more meaningfully and informatively
expressive than the grades MJ citizens use on their ballots. If so, please explain because I see the opposite as true. For example, when we see the 1<sup>st</sup> preference candidate on someone’s ballot, we do not know whether this voter judged this candidate
to be Excellent, Very Good, Good, or Acceptable or least bad. In contrast, some preferences can be inferred from a ballot that lists grades for candidates, e.g. each Excellent candidate is preferred over each Very Good candidate, etc. This is why I see grades
as more meaningfully informative about the subjective judgments citizens have made about the candidates than the preferences they would be required to indicate under FAB STV.
</font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">If the above reasoning is sound, MJ may be no better than FAB STV in that both use all the votes cast to elect the single winner. However, MJ would still
be democratically superior because more citizens would understand exactly how all the votes are counted by MJ, plus MJ also allows every citizen more meaningfully to express themselves.</font></font></font></p>
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<font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">What do you think?</font></font></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">>>>>>>>>>>>>></font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">1st</font></p>
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<font style="font-size:11pt" size="2">Macron says he will represent all France, not just those who voted for him. They say that in the British single member system, too. Only those who actually represent one can represent one. Patronage is not democracy. Single
majorities are minimally democratic, leaving out half the voters.</font></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%" class="elementToProof">
And binary choice, as in the x-vote, is a minimal choice. Approve/disapprove is not much more choice. And more categories of choice not much better still. Ranked choice or number order choice uses a more powerful scale of measurement, the ordinal scale vote,
instead of the categorical scale. This makes possible more precise measurement. For instance, more precise averages than the median. (My system of FAB STV uses four rational averages.) "Science is measurement." </p>
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</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%" class="elementToProof">
Regards,</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;margin-bottom:0in; line-height:100%; background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%" class="elementToProof">
Richard</p>
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