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<p>The Hare system is at-large STV/PR, as Thomas Hare clearly
advocated. Basically the right way of doing elections. It's wrong
to attach his name to single members. <br>
</p>
<p>The drawback of Condorcet pairing is that it loses more than
binary comparisons. It loses the ordinal scale information of
preference voting. Not using voting methods that lose, rather than
use, information is the consideration...</p>
<p><br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/04/2022 05:34, Forest Simmons
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CANUDvfqQA=1uUarDAsGkgDW8_eTyW3-DCN=4_MUJCqKoF0nOLQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">As I remember, Maskin's Sci. Am. article advocated
Copeland completed with Borda.
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">Simpler and no worse would be ...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">Elect the CW if there is one, else instant
pairwise runoff between top two first place candidates.
Precinct summable ... monotonic ... more clone free than
Copeland or Borda. </div>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El dom., 10 de abr. de 2022
6:52 p. m., robert bristow-johnson <<a
href="mailto:rbj@audioimagination.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rbj@audioimagination.com</a>>
escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I want to
say something and ask something here.<br>
<br>
Say: It's not my intention that only Eric Maskin and Nicolaus
Tideman are worthy academics to talk to the Vermont
legislature committees about Ranked-Choice Voting and the
advantages to be gained by moving from Hare to Condorcet. I
recognize there are some heavy hitters here, too. Maskin has
a Nobel and there is a nice Scientific American article from
2004 with his name on it, and he dubs Condorcet RCV as "true
majority rule". I am sorta collaborating with Nic Tideman
about all of this. Someday I'm gonna encode Ranked Pairs into
portable C code for him. But I think a simpler language for
legislative use is better, which is why I had been proposing
either Bottom-Two Runoff or just straight-ahead Condorcet
(with plurality as the contingency if no CW). Much easier to
write language. Sorry Markus, but I can't even approach how
to do Schulze with a procedure in normal text.<br>
<br>
Ask: If you want to get on a list of scholars/researchers to
advise the State of Vermont to pivot to Condorcet before
re-adopting RCV for the first time since the 2010 repeal in
Burlington, please let me know. I will connect you to real
people. But I wanna discuss with you first.<br>
<br>
It's a fool's hope, but there is hope that history can again
be made in Vermont, because many legislators remember the
Burlington repeal, and the Sec of State's office is keen on
Precinct Summability.<br>
<br>
But the IRV folks are getting really pushy. They smell
victory at the finish line, too. I'm Don Quixote, and the
FairVote train hasn't rolled over me yet.<br>
<br>
Always happy for help.<br>
<br>
robert<br>
<br>
> On 04/10/2022 4:46 PM robert bristow-johnson <<a
href="mailto:rbj@audioimagination.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rbj@audioimagination.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > On 04/10/2022 3:52 PM Kristofer Munsterhjelm <<a
href="mailto:km_elmet@t-online.de" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">km_elmet@t-online.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> ...<br>
> > <br>
> > Is there a chance, then, that Burlington will go
directly to a summable<br>
> > Condorcet method instead of a patch to IRV?<br>
> > <br>
> maybe a fool's hope. and it's the state government that
will save our asses, not the city government. Too many
children on the city council. But city charter code are at
the level of state law. So the legislature and guv have to
approve charter changes.<br>
> <br>
> but my state rep, Bob Hooper, was in contact with Eric
Maskin's office to get him to testify. And I mentioned this
to Prof. Tideman. If we can get open minds and open ears in
the Vermont state senate and in the Senate Government
Operations Committee, we maybe have a fool's hope.<br>
> <br>
> Maskin is Harvard and has a Nobel. In 2004 (before the
Nobel), he and Partha Dasgupta published this Scientific
American article: <a
href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m6qn6Y7PAQldKNeIH2Tal6AizF7XY2U4/view"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m6qn6Y7PAQldKNeIH2Tal6AizF7XY2U4/view</a>
. Maskin calls Condorcet "true majority rule". But he's
also an endorser to FairVote: <a
href="https://www.fairvote.org/ranked_choice_voting_endorsements"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.fairvote.org/ranked_choice_voting_endorsements</a>
<br>
> <br>
> That FairVote train runnin on a lotta momentum. VPIRG
spent $71000 to do a commercial.<br>
> <br>
> <a
href="https://www.vpirg.org/news/new-ad-campaign-gives-ranked-choice-voting-a-big-boost/"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.vpirg.org/news/new-ad-campaign-gives-ranked-choice-voting-a-big-boost/</a>
<br>
> <br>
> All these people hate my guts. Becca and Kesha (they
are running for Congress) and Chris P are, I'm sure, very
disappointed in me.<br>
> <br>
> Reformer wannabees hate hearing that their reform,
itself, needs reform.<br>
> <br>
> I think Precinct Summability might save the day,
Kristofer. I am getting good attention from the Secretary of
State's office.<br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> <br>
> r b-j . _ . _ . _ . _ <a
href="mailto:rbj@audioimagination.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rbj@audioimagination.com</a><br>
> <br>
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge."<br>
> <br>
> .<br>
> .<br>
> .<br>
> --<br>
> <br>
> r b-j . _ . _ . _ . _ <a
href="mailto:rbj@audioimagination.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rbj@audioimagination.com</a><br>
> <br>
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge."<br>
> <br>
> .<br>
> .<br>
> .<br>
> ----<br>
> Election-Methods mailing list - see <a
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for list info<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
r b-j . _ . _ . _ . _ <a
href="mailto:rbj@audioimagination.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rbj@audioimagination.com</a><br>
<br>
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."<br>
<br>
.<br>
.<br>
.<br>
----<br>
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</blockquote>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">----
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