<div dir="auto">I should have said "resistant" rather than immune.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">To me immunity implies no defensive move needed, while (again, to me) resistant means that you can thwart the threat without need of any drastic action like an insincere order reversal.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If everybody who prefers the sincere CW over the Burial attacker truncates that attacker, that attacker should not win.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I have to confess that I never did become an expert in the taxonomy of Condorcet defense criteria because I was more interested in other aspects of election methods. Remember Demorep? He never took his eye off of the Approval Completed Condorcet ball. It always appealed to me because I like Approval more than Condorcet in many ways, and even though approval strategy may seem daunting to some people, I never thought that optimal approval strategy gave a better social utility result than naive gut feeling approval, especially when no Condorcet candidate was agreed upon. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Here's an example where the Condorcet winner is obvious, yet imho the naive Approval winner is better:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Sincere gut feelings:</div><div dir="auto">45 A>C>>B..</div><div dir="auto">55 B>C>>A...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I believe that C is a better compromise than B who is the Condorcet/majority, optimal rational strategy, Nash equilibrium, etc winner.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">That's why I am more interested in lottery methods that make the sure lottery 100%C the game theoretic unanimous lottery winner ... more than refining deterministic methods.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Having said that, it is hard to stand by and say nothing when inferior complicated methods are proposed in place of simple good methods like Eppley's proposal of Ranked Pairs.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">And I would hate to see that proposal get scuttled because of its weakness vis-a-vis Chicken attacks ... hence my essay showing why it is vulnerable and why not much can be done about that vulnerability strictly within the confines of Universal Domain.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Demorep was looked upon condescendingly partly because he was socially inept and partly because he insistently and unapologetically advocated a simple method that violated Universal Domain. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">And yet we now know that kind of violation is unavoidable in one way or another for a truly satisfactory voting method.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Three Cheers for Demorep!!!</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">El jue., 16 de sep. de 2021 2:28 a. m., Kristofer Munsterhjelm <<a href="mailto:km_elmet@t-online.de">km_elmet@t-online.de</a>> escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 9/16/21 6:09 AM, Forest Simmons wrote:<br>
<br>
> Eventually Mike O. went on to bigger and better things but a few years <br>
> ago he made a brief, but passionate, return to the EM List when the <br>
> Possibilities of Hope seemed to include a real possibility of election <br>
> reform. As we weighed the merits of various methods it suddenly became <br>
> apparent that we didn't have a Condorcet method that was immune to both <br>
> burial abd "Chicken," a ploy that had not concerned us much in the past <br>
> but now loomed larger.<br>
> <br>
> O course IRV came up as a method that was immune to both Burial and <br>
> Chicken, but at the expense of the Condorcet Criterion. A flurry of <br>
> activity on the EM list searched for a hybrid between IRV and Condorcet <br>
> similar to what we have seen since the resurrection of IRV as RCV.<br>
<br>
Just a note: No Condorcet method can be completely immune to burial. I <br>
think Chris Benham showed this, though I can't find the post where he <br>
did so. So it's then clear that no Condorcet method can be completely <br>
immune to both burial and chicken, either.<br>
<br>
I think my fpA-fpC is immune to chicken (but not burial). Of course, <br>
that's just a three-candidate method.<br>
<br>
-km<br>
</blockquote></div>