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<p>John,<br>
</p>
<p>With the VIASME method I'm proposing the voters just have to give
candidates they rank higher more points than those they rank
lower,<br>
and score the candidates approximately accurately according to how
they rate them relative to each other.<br>
<br>
I don't understand why you think that is a problem. What types of
ballot do you like? <br>
<br>
Chris Benham<br>
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/06/2019 9:53 pm, John wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKYQpdsKutVB_bbvbMx_GyRXduEZ5viDLwL7fmbfAA7rLBtXRw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">Voters can't readily provide meaningful
information as score voting. It's highly-strategic and the
comparison of cardinal values is not natural.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">All valuation is ordinal. Prices are based from
cost; but what people WILL pay, given no option to pay less,
is based on ordinal comparison.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Is X worth 2 Y?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">For the <span class="money">$1,000</span> iPhone
I could have a OnePlus 6t and a Chromebook. The 6t...I can get
a cheaper smartphone, but I prefer the 6t to that phone plus
whatever else I buy.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I have a higher paying job, so each dollar is
worth fewer hours, so the ordinal value of a dollar to me is
lower. <span class="money">$600</span> of my dollars is
fewer hours than <span class="money">$600</span> minimum wage
dollars. I have access to my most-preferred purchases and can
buy way down into my less-preferred purchases.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Information about this is difficult to pin down
by voter. Prices in the stock market set by a constant,
public auction among millions of buyers and sellers. A single
buyer can hardly price one stock against another, and prices
against what they think their gains will be relative to
current price.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">When pricing candidates, you'll see a lot like
Mohs hardness: 2 is 200, 3 is 500, 4 is 1,500; but we label
things that are 250 or 450 as 2.5, likewise between 500 and
1,500 is 3.5. Being between X and Y is always immediately
HALFWAY between X and Y, most intuitively.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The rated system sucks even before you factor in
strategic concerns (which only matter if actually using a
score-driven method).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Approval is just low-resolution (1 bit) score
voting.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 21, 2019, 12:01 AM
C.Benham <<a href="mailto:cbenham@adam.com.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">cbenham@adam.com.au</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p>Forest,<br>
<br>
With paper and pencil ballots and the voters only writing
in their numerical scores it probably isn't very practical
for the Australian Electoral Commission<br>
hand vote-counters.<br>
<br>
But if it isn't compulsory to mark each candidate and the
default score is zero, I'm sure the voters could quickly
adapt.<br>
<br>
In the US I gather that there is at least one reform
proposal to use these type of ballots. One of these,
"Score Voting" aka "Range Voting", <br>
proposes to just use Average Ratings with I gather the
default score being "no opinion" rather than zero and
some tweak to prevent an unknown<br>
candidate from winning.<br>
<br>
So it struck me that if we can collect such a large amount
of detailed information from the voters then we could do a
lot more with it, and if we<br>
want something that meets the Condorcet criterion this is
my suggestion.<br>
<br>
Chris Benham<br>
<br>
<a href="https://rangevoting.org/" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://rangevoting.org/</a><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p
style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:arial,sans-serif,"arial
narrow";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><big><b>How
score voting works:</b></big></p>
<ol
style="color:rgb(27,27,27);font-family:arial,sans-serif,"arial
narrow";font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"
type="a">
<li>Each<span> </span><a
href="https://rangevoting.org/MeaningOfVote.html"
title="What a 'vote' is"
style="border:1px;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-decoration:none;background:rgb(209,154,59)"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">vote</a><span> </span>consists
of a numerical score within some range (say<span> </span><a
href="https://rangevoting.org/Why99.html"
title="Other scores such as 0-10 also are possible
and we do not insist on 0-99. Link explains why 0-99
is a good choice and how to use other scores."
style="border:1px;color:rgb(95,14,0);text-decoration:none"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">0 to 99</a>) for each
candidate. Simpler is 0 to 9 ("single digit score
voting").</li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="m_-816986146098263387moz-cite-prefix">On
21/06/2019 5:33 am, Forest Simmons wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Chris, I like it especially the part about naive
voters voting sincerely being at no appreciable
disadvantage while resisting burial and complying
with the CD criterion. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From your experience in Australia where full
rankings are required (as I understand it) what do you
think about the practicality of rating on a scale of
zero to 99, as compared with ranking a long list of
candidates? Is it a big obstacle?<br>
</div>
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