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<b><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">From:</font></span></b><font face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">
Kristofer Munsterhjelm <km_elmet@t-online.de><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 20, 2018 9:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> steve bosworth; election-methods@lists.electorama.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: IRV etc. v. EPR-STEVE'S REPLY TO KRISTOFER</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 14.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">
</span></font></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">On 2018-07-18 11:41, steve
bosworth wrote:<br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> <br>
> Hi Kristofer,</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">I’ll respond to each of
you points in line:<br>
> <br>
S: > Thank you for originally telling me about MJ and helping me think that <br>
> it might be possible to modify it to enable evaluative voting also to <br>
> elect multi-winners. Do you see any flaws in EPR? Below, you helpfully <br>
> illustrate how some varieties of voting by ranking candidates might <br>
> produce somewhat similar results. However, do you agree with me that, <br>
> unlike any of these varieties, EPR alone allows each voter to guarantee <br>
> that her one vote will be added to the one representative whom she has <br>
> helped to elect and sees as the one most ‘fit’ for the office?<br>
<br>
K:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>You're welcome.<br>
Since you have added maximum weight limits to the EPR method, it seems <br>
that either it is not completely free of vote-wasting, or an unweighted <br>
method can be made free of vote-wasting as well.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Below, I will again explain how EPR allows no vote to be wasted quantitatively or qualitatively. Below, I accept EPR can allow some qualitative votes to be partly wasted, but only when this is otherwise unavoidable.
<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Immediately, however, I see unweighted methods as needlessly wasting some votes because these methods require any surplus whole or fractional votes to be transferred from a higher to a lower preference (or evaluated)
candidate, i.e. when that 1<sup>st</sup> candidate is elected as result of already having received at least the chosen quota of votes.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Again, these transferred votes are partly wasted qualitatively.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>This is also illustrated by your next sentences.<br>
<br>
K:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Just set the maximum weight limit to (number of voters)/(number of
<br>
seats), and you will get an Asset-based method very close to BTV <br>
(Bucklin STV) with a Hare quota. If a group of voters' favorite <br>
candidate gets more than a Droop quota, that candidate will then decide <br>
where the surplus goes. This is similar to, but not quite the same <br>
thing, as the surplus redistribution step in ordinary BTV.<br>
<br>
If this Asset BTV method (to coin a name) wastes votes,….</font></span></p>
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<font face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">S: Which it does, at least
qualitatively.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>EPR also does this but only as a last resort, i.e. only when a voter has not evaluated any of the winners as being at least ACCEPTABLE.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>However, I now see that Endnote 8 in my published article does not fully explain how.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Therefore, let me again add</span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"> the following complete explanation
which was originally included in an earlier unpublished draft.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>It was added at the end of the section of the article called (</span><b><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">The EPR Algorithm</span></b><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">):</span></font></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 84pt 14pt 0in; line-height: normal; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">“Thus, at this stage, each winner has the following
number of affirmed evaluations:</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 10pt 66.75pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">A-18, C-11, E-15, G-10, D-9, I-4, B-1.</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 84.25pt 14pt 0in; line-height: 150%; vertical-align: middle;">
<font face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; line-height: 150%; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">“Note that this is the last type
of discovery that the computer algorithm is able to make. However, the above numbers of affirmed evaluations are slightly different from the
</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 176, 80); line-height: 150%; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">following numbers of weighted votes that
these s would receive as a result of the additional considerations explained in the remaining paragraphs of the section.</span></font></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 84pt 14pt 66.75pt; line-height: normal; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">A-14, C-12, E-14, G-10, D-9, I-4, B-5.
</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 84.25pt 14pt 0in; line-height: 150%; vertical-align: middle;">
<font face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; line-height: 150%; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">“These small changes have been made
by hand. Not in this sample election, but such differences might occur because of EPR’s promise to enable each citizen to guarantee that his or her vote will continue proportionately to count in the deliberations of the council. Thus, if and when none of
the evaluations of at least ACCEPTABLE by at least one voter refers to one of the elected candidates, EPR’s ballot allows each voter to require the unelected candidate she had most highly valued to transfer her
<i>default</i> vote to the total number of affirmed evaluations already received by one of the winners, i.e., this candidate must give her default vote to the member he judges to be the one most
<i>fit</i> for the office. Again, in the above example simulation, no such default votes are
</span><span style="color: red; line-height: 150%; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">available.<sup>8</sup></span></font></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 8pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<font face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">“Instead, the differences between the above two sets
of numbers results entirely from EPR’s rule that removes an unlikely but theoretically possible threat to democracy: one of the elected candidates might receive enough votes to dictate to the council. Thus, EPR has chosen to limit the total percentage of
all the votes in the council that any one member can retain. For example, this limit might be set so that at least 3 members must agree before a majority decision can be made. For this sample election, this limit could be 20% (i.e. 14 weighted votes). Any
most popular such member would be the first to be required to transfer her <i>extra</i> votes to one or more of her fellow councilmembers. Accordingly, in this election, member A must non-returnably give her 4 extra votes to one or more of her fellow members.
Similarly, member E must transfer his extra </span><span style="color: red; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">vote.<sup>8</sup>
</span></font></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 8pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">“Of course, different but acceptable percentage limits
could be adopted by different cities, states, or nations. However, using the limit of 14 votes in our example, we report that winner A transferred her 4 extra affirmed evaluations to winner B, finally giving him a weighted vote of 5 rather than 1 in the council.
Also, winner E transferred his extra affirmed evaluation to winner C, giving C a weighted vote of 12 rather than 11. Again, this means that each winner’s final weighted vote in the council is:
</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 10pt 66.75pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> A-14, C-12, E-14, G-10, D-9, I-4, B-5.
</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 8pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">“In these ways, it can be seen that each EPR citizen
can guarantee that his or her vote, directly or indirectly, will continue fully to count in the deliberations of the council -– no citizen’s vote need be wasted.</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<font face="Calibri"><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">“These are the ways in which EPR includes two different
uses of ‘Asset Voting’, after the computer count has been </span><span style="color: red; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">completed.<sup>8</sup></span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;">
“</span></font></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span><span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K:
…. then EPR can be slowly changed into this Asset BTV method, there must be some value of
<br>
the maximum weight restriction that turns EPR into a method that wastes <br>
votes. </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Yes, but in contrast to Asset BTV, EPR minimizes this partial qualitative waste.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>It limits it only to any case where some citizen’s votes would otherwise be entirely wasted,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>or if counted, might help elect a dictatorial winner.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Alternatively, EPR continuously approaches a [qualitative] vote-wasting method
<br>
as one decreases the maximum weight restriction. But in that case, since <br>
EPR as you propose it already has a maximum weight restriction, it can't <br>
be the minimally vote-wasting method: that method would be EPR without <br>
any maximum weight restrictions at all.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><br>
<font face="Calibri">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In the context of the above explanation of EPR, I characterize EPR’s ‘weight restriction’ as necessary to reduce the chances for dictatorship rather than being ‘maximal’ or minimal.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K:
<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In short: by being more strict about the maximum weight winners can get,
<br>
we can get an unweighted method. You've said unweighted methods waste <br>
votes. It's possible to turn EPR into an unweighted method by decreasing <br>
the max weight restriction.</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S: Yes, but EPR shows how
all the benefits of having weighted votes can be maximized by requiring some citizen’s votes to be partly wasted qualitatively.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K: So somewhere along that
line from no restriction to a Hare quota restriction, EPR turns into a vote-wasting method. But what this point is, is entirely arbitrary.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Hence something <br>
strange is going on.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S: No, this waste starts
as soon as any limit restriction is applied.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>
However, it is justified because it helps to protect democracy. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>In the context of the above explanations, I think it is fair to say that EPR’s ‘vote-wasting method’ is not at all ‘arbitrary’.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>This is because it only helps to guarantee that each citizen’s will continue to count in the council, and at the same time it does not offering the possibility of electing a legislative dictator.<br>
<br>
K:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Another way to pry [?play??] at this is to consider normal Asset. Suppose we
<br>
instead of EPR use a method where everybody who gets one or more votes <br>
meet up and redistribute their votes, Asset style, until only (number of <br>
seats) of the candidates have more than zero votes. (For the sake of <br>
simplicity, ignore the problem of scale at the moment.) Since EPR has an <br>
Asset component yet doesn't waste votes [quantitatively}, </font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S: The only cases where
EPR’s use of Asset would be clear that it is not qualitatively wasting a vote partly is when either the ‘default’ or ‘extra’ vote being transferred to a winner is going the a winner who happened also to be awarded the same evaluation by the relevant voter,
i.e. the voter who had most highly valued either the relevant most valued losing candidate, or the relevant very popular winning candidate.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>… why would this Asset method waste votes? If it wastes votes, something strange is going on; if it doesn't, then EPR is not the only method that doesn't waste votes.</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>By ‘normal Asset’, I take it that you are simply adding the possibility of having a public list pre-Registered Asset Electors, i.e. during the general election, giving each citizen the option of simply giving her proxy vote to one of these Electors publicly
to evaluate all the candidates rather than secretly evaluating the candidates directly herself.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>If so, theoretically it could offer the benefits offered by simple EPR.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span></font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>From a cursory look, Asset doesn't appear to waste votes quantitatively <br>
because a voter X's vote either helps his favorite Y, or helps someone <br>
who Y contributes asset to (who then becomes the candidate X helped <br>
elect). It doesn't waste votes qualitatively any more than EPR does <br>
because X's vote contributes directly to the initial assets of Y.<br>
S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Yes.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>I see no reason to reject the addition of this Asset option, provided all the other elements of EPR remain.<br>
K:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I suspect that the answer is that every method wastes votes somewhat,
<br>
and some are better than others. </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S: Yes, but only EPR (with
or without the above Asset option) minimizes the partial qualitative waste.</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K: But I also imagine that
it's hard to quantify either to what degree a method wastes votes, or to what degree it is a bad thing.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>As far as I can see, the exact amount of qualitative waste that might have occurred in any given EPR election could be counted exactly.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Also, given the demand that the ideal representative democracy would not needlessly waste any citizen’s vote, any unnecessary waste is ‘bad’.</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K: This because while the
grades in MJ are compared to a common standard, that common standard might differ in different societies.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Yes and No.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>As I understand Balinski and Laraki, they are not asserting the obviously false claim that each voter (or each society) has the same scale of values.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>No, people commonly have different priorities.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Correctly in my view, they are only claiming that almost every adult is able to distinguish between at least 6 different grades of valued human behavior, each according to his or her own current scale of values:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>EXCELLENT, VERY GOOD, GOOD, ACCEPTABLE, POOR, and REJECT. </font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K: As I've understood it,
a wasted vote in something like Bucklin STV <br>
implies that either the voter's ballot has been exhausted (e.g. he only <br>
named a favorite, nobody else, and now his vote won't count for anything <br>
any longer), or that the method forced his vote to count towards a <br>
compromise rather than to his favorite. …</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S: Yes, but such waste would
be almost minimized by Bucklin STV if EPR’s two uses of Asset were added to Bucklin STV.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Still, because Bucklin STV uses rankings rather than grades, it is less certain than EPR is, only to elect the winners who are most highly valued by their respective electorates.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Sometimes, a compromise is a choice everybody can accept; other times, it's a choice that pleases nobody. And those two situations differ.</font></span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Yes, but as I see it, EPR requires no compromises.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Each of its features maximally foster democracy.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>This is because each voter can guarantee that her one vote will continue to count in the council through the member she has helped to elect and whom she sees as the one most fit for the office.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>At the same time, dictatorship is appropriately resisted.<br>
<br>
K: If it's only properly exhausted ballots that cause trouble, the <br>
minimally vote-wasting unweighted method could just have the otherwise <br>
truncated ballot be completed according to the favorite's choice: the <br>
grades not supplied by the voter would then be supplied by the default <br>
ballot provided by the voter's favorite candidate.</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Yes.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But Bucklin STV would be better if it also allowed weighted votes in the council similar to those allowed by EPR.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Still, EPR would be superior both because its evaluations are more meaningful, informative, and discerning than rankings; and each voter can apply the same evaluation to more than one candidate while retaining the principle of one-citizen-one-vote.
<br style="mso-special-character: line-break;">
<br style="mso-special-character: line-break;">
</font></span></p>
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<p style="background: rgb(244, 244, 244); margin: 0in 0in 0pt; line-height: 22.5pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<span style="color: black; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri;"><font face="Calibri">K: On a side note, I think
that redoing the method with a different initial <br>
threshold is better than changing the initial threshold during the <br>
process, as everybody gets to play according to the same rules. It is <br>
also more complex, however.</font></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><span style="line-height: 107%; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;"><font face="Calibri"> </font></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><span style="line-height: 107%; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;"><font face="Calibri">S: If your suggested ‘threshold’ would also limit the total number of weighted votes that a winner could retain, this would again
needlessly the qualitative wasting of some votes. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>By contrast, the ‘number of seats/the total number of voters’ threshold of EPR does not determine the upper limit of the number of weighted votes that can be retained by an elected candidate.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>This threshold only determines in what round all the next lower group of remaining evaluations must be added to the currently remaining higher evaluations in order to attempt to discover the next winner.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>EPR’s count treats all voters according to the same set of rules.</font></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><span style="line-height: 107%; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;"><font face="Calibri">What do you think?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>I look forward to your feedback.</font></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><span style="line-height: 107%; font-size: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;"><font face="Calibri">Steve</font></span></p>
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