<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px">I think it is useful in a situation where you electing a delegate and a first and second alternate.<br><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507483522185_12607"><span></span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Sunday, October 8, 2017 2:07 PM, Toby Pereira <tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv6318776349"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div><span></span></div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2660">I'd certainly say that IIA is worth achieving if it can be done. But while I imagine that LIIA is supposed to go some way towards full IIA, I think that this is an illusion. Let's say we have an A>B>C>A cycle. If A wins, then the result order under an LIIA compliant system must be:</div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2701"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2754">1. A</div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2753">2. B</div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2702">3. C</div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2703"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2759">Adjacent candidates in the order will never swap over if other candidates are removed. If A is removed, B wins. If C is removed, A wins. But the question is: what is so special about adjacent candidates? This simply means that if B is removed, then C wins. This is arguably worse than adjacent candidates swapping because a candidate has gone above a candidate that was originally two places above them.</div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2717"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2752">Failure of IIA means that there is the possibility that a pair of candidates will swap their order with the removal of a third candidate. Passing LIIA simply determines which candidates might swap over, but without any justification of why these swaps are better than other swaps.</div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2760"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv6318776349qtdSeparateBR" dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2761">Toby<br id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2768" clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv6318776349yqt6014632413" id="yiv6318776349yqt49048"><div class="yiv6318776349yahoo_quoted" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2537" style="display:block;"> <div id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2536" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"> <div id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2535" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2534"> <font id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2602" face="Arial" size="2"> </font><hr id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2603" size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Rob Lanphier <robla@robla.net><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> "tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk" <tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk> <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> "rahyman@sbcglobal.net" <rahyman@sbcglobal.net>; Kristofer Munsterhjelm <km_elmet@t-online.de>; "election-methods@lists.electorama.com" <election-methods@lists.electorama.com><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, 8 October 2017, 17:41<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [EM] Let's play Jenga!<br clear="none"> </div> <div class="yiv6318776349y_msg_container" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2596"><br clear="none"><div id="yiv6318776349"><div id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2595"><div dir="ltr" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2594"><div class="yiv6318776349gmail_extra" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2593"><div class="yiv6318776349gmail_quote" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2592">On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 6:44 AM, Toby Pereira <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank" href="mailto:tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk">tdp201b@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv6318776349gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">I've never seen an explanation of why LIIA [(Local Independence from Irrelevant Alternatives)] is something you'd want to achieve in a method. It seems to be a criterion for the sake of it.</blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2601">Do you believe standard IIA[1] is something worth achieving?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2600">Rob</div><div class="yiv6318776349yqt0004828639" id="yiv6318776349yqtfd56562"><div id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2591"><br clear="none"></div></div><div id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2597"><div class="yiv6318776349yqt0004828639" id="yiv6318776349yqtfd13242">[1]: </div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2598" target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_irrelevant_alternatives">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_irrelevant_alternatives</a><div class="yiv6318776349yqt0004828639" id="yiv6318776349yqtfd18076"><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv6318776349yqt0004828639" id="yiv6318776349yqtfd56093"><div id="yiv6318776349yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507489011549_2599"> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>