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<font face="Calibri"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Kristofer Munsterhjelm <km_elmet@t-online.de></span></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Sent:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Sunday, April 2, 2017 9:08 PM</span></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">To:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">steve bosworth</span></font></p>
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<font face="Calibri"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Subject:
</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;">Re: [EM] (2) No Wasted Votes</span></font></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">On 04/02/2017 10:48 PM, steve bosworth wrote:</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> *From: *Kristofer Munsterhjelm km_elmet@t-online.de</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> *Sent: *Sunday, April 2, 2017 1:00 PM</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> *To: *steve bosworth; election-methods@lists.electorama.co</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> *Subject: *Re: [EM](2) No Wasted Votes</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> On 03/25/2017 05:38 PM, steve bosworth wrote:</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">>> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> Re: No Wasted Votes ></font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> To Everyone:</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> Hi Kristofer:</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> S: Because I want a more complete democracy, I want to explain: “How</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> Each Citizen’s Vote Can Fully Count in the Legislature” – no votes</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> wasted. Using California’s legislative Assembly as an example, the</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> system I call Associational Proportional Representation (APR)</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> would allow each citizen to guarantee that their one vote will be added</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> to the “weighted vote” in the Assembly of the elected member they trust</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> most_. The details of exactly how APR would work in practice are</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> explained in the article which I will email to you upon request</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> (stevebosworth@hotmail.com). However, please let me briefly describe it</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> below. Your feedback would be very much appreciated.</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> K: I've been very busy of late, so I haven't been able to respond to</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> your other mail, but I'd like to note a few things. You could use MJ</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> instead of IRV. Since APR prior to weighting is basically "elect</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> candidates by IRV a bunch of times", ….</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> </font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> S: Thank you for responding in spite of your other commitments.</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> However, it seems that my brief description of APR was not as clear as</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> I thought. APR is not IRV used “a bunch of times). Instead, APR elects</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> all the winners at one time, and in effect, using the whole state,</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> country, or nation as one electoral district. Its special “associational” structure allows this. No matter through which one of</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> APR’s “electoral associations” a citizen is voting, she can rank any</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> number of any of the candidates running in the whole state, nation, or</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> country. I hope the attached article explains exactly how APR works.</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> Also attached are the 2 flow charts that may help to clarify how APR</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> works. For any reader who will not receive these attachment unless they</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> ask for them, the brief description of APR that was included in my</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> March 25th post is repeated below but now with the most salient phrases</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">> underlined. I hope this will be of some help.</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri"><br>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Below, I’ll add some [necessary clarifications and my answers in square brackets] to your question:</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">K:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>I can't at the moment read the details, but let's just check if I've got</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">this right.</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">Is it right that your method effectively works like this?</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">- For [APR’s general election of] 650 seats, input the votes for [all the different candidates running to represent each of APR’s official]
associations.</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">- Run IRV and eliminate first preference losers [and later, also some losers who had received some lower preferences transferred to them from
previously eliminated candidates] one at a time until only 650 candidates are left [and each citizen’s one vote has been added to the “weighted vote of one of the winning candidates].</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">- The remaining 650 candidates get weights according to the number of</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">first [and other] preference votes they have.</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">[ In the event that none of a citizen’s explicit preference candidates is elected, APR’s ballot allows her to require her first preference but
eliminated candidate to transfer her one vote to the elected candidate he believes will represent both her and him most faithfully [e.g. see the article’s Endnotes 3 & 4.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>This means that each citizen’s vote is guaranteed to be added to the “weighted vote” of the member in the legislature whose worldview is most probably closest to hers.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Thus, no citizen’s vote is wasted quantitatively or qualitatively.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Using your number of 650, this APR legislature would proportionately represent up to 650 of the most popular worldviews held by the electorate.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>To exaggerate, this result would contrast sharply with the largely 650 clones that would probably be elected if MJ were used instead for such a multi-winner election.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>(I see this last addition as addressing your following suggestion regarding MJ.]</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">What I meant by "running IRV a bunch of times" was running the</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">elimination logic (each IRV round) a bunch of times - until only 650 (or</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">however many) were left. If I was imprecise, I'm sorry.</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">The rest should still hold, however. If MJ is better than IRV, then a</font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">multi-winner generalization of MJ (such as my Bucklin methods) should be</font></span></p>
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<p style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt;"><span style="line-height: 107%; font-size: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><font face="Calibri">better than a multi-winner generalization of IRV [No, I do not yet see how] .</font></span></p>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Kristofer Munsterhjelm <km_elmet@t-online.de><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 2, 2017 9:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> steve bosworth<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [EM] (2) No Wasted Votes</font>
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<div class="PlainText">On 04/02/2017 10:48 PM, steve bosworth wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> *From: *Kristofer Munsterhjelm km_elmet@t-online.de<br>
> <br>
> *Sent: *Sunday, April 2, 2017 1:00 PM<br>
> <br>
> *To: *steve bosworth; election-methods@lists.electorama.co<br>
> <br>
> *Subject: *Re: [EM](2) No Wasted Votes<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 03/25/2017 05:38 PM, steve bosworth wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Re: No Wasted Votes ><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> To Everyone:<br>
> <br>
> Hi Kristofer:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> S: Because I want a more complete democracy, I want to explain: “How<br>
> Each Citizen’s Vote Can Fully Count in the Legislature” – no votes<br>
> wasted. Using California’s legislative Assembly as an example, the<br>
> system I call Associational Proportional Representation (APR)<br>
> would_allow each citizen to guarantee that their one vote will be added<br>
> to the “weighted vote” in the Assembly of the elected member they trust<br>
> most_. The details of exactly how APR would work in practice are<br>
> explained in the article which I will email to you upon request<br>
> (stevebosworth@hotmail.com). However, please let me briefly describe it<br>
> below. Your feedback would be very much appreciated.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> K: I've been very busy of late, so I haven't been able to respond to<br>
> your other mail, but I'd like to note a few things. You could use MJ<br>
> instead of IRV. Since APR prior to weighting is basically "elect<br>
> candidates by IRV a bunch of times", ….<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> S: Thank you for responding in spite of your other commitments.<br>
> However, it seems that my brief description of APR was not as clear as<br>
> I thought. APR is not IRV used “a bunch of times). Instead, APR elects<br>
> all the winners at one time, and in effect, using the whole state,<br>
> country, or nation as one electoral district. Its special<br>
> “associational” structure allows this. No matter through which one of<br>
> APR’s “electoral associations” a citizen is voting, she can rank any<br>
> number of any of the candidates running in the whole state, nation, or<br>
> country. I hope the attached article explains exactly how APR works.<br>
> Also attached are the 2 flow charts that may help to clarify how APR<br>
> works. For any reader who will not receive these attachment unless they<br>
> ask for them, the brief description of APR that was included in my<br>
> March 25th post is repeated below but now with the most salient phrases<br>
> underlined. I hope this will be of some help. <br>
<br>
I can't at the moment read the details, but let's just check if I've got<br>
this right.<br>
<br>
Is it right that your method effectively works like this?<br>
<br>
- For 650 seats, input the votes for the different associations.<br>
- Run IRV and eliminate first preference losers one at a time until only<br>
650 candidates are left.<br>
- The remaining 650 candidates get weights according to the number of<br>
first preference votes they have.<br>
<br>
What I meant by "running IRV a bunch of times" was running the<br>
elimination logic (each IRV round) a bunch of times - until only 650 (or<br>
however many) were left. If I was imprecise, I'm sorry.<br>
<br>
The rest should still hold, however. If MJ is better than IRV, then a<br>
multiwinner generalization of MJ (such as my Bucklin methods) should be<br>
better than a multiwinner generalization of IRV.<br>
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