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It would be nice to have a choice of candidates, more or less, in
order of preference. Lack of choice, not too much choice, has been
my lifetime problem with MPs who never remotely represented my
views.<br>
Best-losers MMP is just too anomalous, as James Gilmour intimates,
in another post. How discredited the Blake report was by Robert
Newland, ERS Representation, january 1977, or therabouts. And Vernon
Bogdanor: The People and the Party System. (Not to mention my own
book: Scientific Method of Elections.)<br>
from<br>
Richard Lung.<br>
<br>
On 03/01/2017 16:52, Toby Pereira wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:1606673780.9639358.1483462368815@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:13px">
<div><span></span></div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5528" dir="ltr">The main
problem with STV is that it limits the region size and
therefore the level of proportionality you can achieve
because ballot papers can get very large and unwieldy very
quickly.<br>
</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5535" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5536" dir="ltr">Another
alternative is mixed member (MMP) but without lists. You would
have individual constituencies as well as wider regions.</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5651" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5672" dir="ltr">Something
like what I described here - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5676"
href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21msg/electionscience/aP7ybKMb1zs/giaYAh6wAwAJ">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/electionscience/aP7ybKMb1zs/giaYAh6wAwAJ</a> -
which would work with score or approval voting. I also did a
video - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5750"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjeBEBZjm9Y">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjeBEBZjm9Y</a> -
but that's a bit long. I should probably do a short one.</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5793" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5794" dir="ltr">Toby</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5756"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5788"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5682"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5709"><br>
</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5537" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div class="yahoo_quoted"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5408" style="display:
block;">
<blockquote id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5407"
style="padding-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5px;
border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px;
border-left-style: solid;">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5406"
style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size:
13px;">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5405"
style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size:
16px;">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5404" dir="ltr">
<font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5444"
face="Arial" size="2">
<hr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5466"
size="1"> <b
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5802"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5801"
style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
James Gilmour <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jgilmour@globalnet.co.uk"><jgilmour@globalnet.co.uk></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
'Erik Moeller' <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:eloquence@gmail.com"><eloquence@gmail.com></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com">election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Tuesday, 3 January 2017, 12:48<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [EM] The Global Fight For Electoral Justice: A
Primer<br>
</font> </div>
<div class="y_msg_container"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483447119653_5464"><br>
<br clear="none">
And if you are going to have effective ranking WITHIN
each party list, why not just use STV-PR?<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Regards<br clear="none">
James<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
> -----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
> From: Erik Moeller [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:eloquence@gmail.com" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:eloquence@gmail.com">eloquence@gmail.com</a>]<br
clear="none">
> Sent: 03 January 2017 04:59<br clear="none">
> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jgilmour@globalnet.co.uk" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:jgilmour@globalnet.co.uk">jgilmour@globalnet.co.uk</a><br
clear="none">
> Cc: ElectionMethods <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:electionmethods@votefair.org"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:electionmethods@votefair.org">electionmethods@votefair.org</a>>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com">election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a><br
clear="none">
> Subject: Re: [EM] The Global Fight For Electoral
Justice: A Primer<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 7:52 AM, James Gilmour
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jgilmour@globalnet.co.uk" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:jgilmour@globalnet.co.uk">jgilmour@globalnet.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> > I have always understood that the British
civil servants who<br clear="none">
> > administered the British Occupied Zone after
WWII had a large hand in<br clear="none">
> > devising AMS, by combining the British FPTP
system (with single-member<br clear="none">
> > electoral districts) with the old Weimar
system, in the<br clear="none">
> > (mistaken) belief that this would introduce
a significant element of<br clear="none">
> > personal choice to what had been an
impersonal closed-list party-list voting system.<br
clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> It's not completely mistaken as the directly
elected candidates sometimes do enjoy high local
popularity that propels them to unusual<br
clear="none">
> levels of success beyond the support for their
party. But I think the single-vote variant is
interesting in this regard, because the<br
clear="none">
> combination of party/person and the use of
popular support to derive party lists means that
individuals benefit from campaigning<br clear="none">
> locally (they're more likely to get a list seat
if they score well).<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> Variants of this system that don't require full
ranking but still increase intra-party competition are
likely possible. For example, if voters<br
clear="none">
> could strike through the name of a person they
absolutely don't want while still voting for the
party, this would be a simple tool to<br clear="none">
> further influence the list ranking.<br
clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> > Originally electors had only one vote; the
two-vote ballot paper was<br clear="none">
> > introduced for the Federal Bundestag
elections in 1953.<br clear="none">
> ><br clear="none">
> > The predominance of closed-list party-list
voting systems in<br clear="none">
> > continental Europe<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> Open lists are also widespread in continental
Europe, as this map from Fairvote shows:<br
clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/fairvote.geography-class/page.html#3/46.80/751.64"
target="_blank" shape="rect">http://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/fairvote.geography-class/page.html#3/46.80/751.64</a><br
clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> Cheers,<br clear="none">
> Erik<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
---<br clear="none">
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast
antivirus software.<br clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus"
target="_blank" shape="rect">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a>
<div class="yqt5108215550" id="yqtfd04113"><br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
----<br clear="none">
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href="http://electorama.com/em" target="_blank"
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list info<br clear="none">
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<br>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Richard Lung.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.voting.ukscientists.com">http://www.voting.ukscientists.com</a>
Democracy Science series 3 free e-books in pdf:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://plus.google.com/106191200795605365085">https://plus.google.com/106191200795605365085</a>
E-books in epub format:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/democracyscience">https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/democracyscience</a>
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