<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">I’d
said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
When I used the example of MDDA & MDDAsc, to illustrate that it's better to</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
equal-top-rank your strong top-set, rather than choosing among them by</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
ranking them in order of preference--That wasn't intended as criticism of</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
MDDA & MDDAsc.</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i> </i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
The fact of it being better to equal-rank the set that is important to you</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
instead of choosing among them is true with other rank methods too.</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i> </i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
In particular, it's true of Condorcet & Bucklin. It would be true of IRV</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
too, if IRV allowed equal-ranking.</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Robert
replied:</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">if
IRV allowed equal-ranking, who of the equal-ranked 2nd choice are promoted to
the 1st choice (because that's the only choice that gets counted in IRV) when
the 1st choice is eliminated? </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[endquote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">All
of them, of course.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">But
I’m not advocating IRV with equal-top-ranking. As Kevin pointed our some years
ago, IRV with equal-top-ranking still fails FBC. I don’t propose it or advocate
it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
I don't have proof that it's, in principle, a</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">property
of _all_</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">><i>
ranking-methods, but I don't know of an exception.</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">lemme
see, you're claiming that, without an exception that you know of, in any ranked
method it is an advisable strategy to equally rank all candidates that you
"sorta like"? </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[endquote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">No.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">I’m
saying that I don’t know of a rank method in which it wouldn’t be best to
top-rank all of your strong top-set.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Your
strong top-set is more than “sorta like”.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">You
said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">you
think voters that [who] are free to unequally</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">rank
them (but not to have to score them) would prefer to follow your tactical
advise in their particular circumstances that you have no idea of? </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[endquote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">I
didn’t say anything about what voters would prefer to do.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">But
I’ve been emphasizing thoughout that a lot of voting-reform advocates want
rankings, insist on rankings. I’ve also been repeating that some
overcompromisers & rival parties would do better with rankings than with
Approval. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Some
overcompromisers need FBC, so that they won’t feel a need to rank Compromsie
over Favorite.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">I’ve
observed people voting more honestly with Score than with Approval, which is
why I also strongly advocate Score. I’ve also noticed better honesty in ranked
polls.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">I’m
just saying that, when voting in a rank method that allows equal-top-ranking,
if you want to maximize the probability of electing from your strong top-set,
then top-rank them all.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">As
I said, I don’t guarantee that there are no exceptions. It’s just that I don’t
know of one.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">You
said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">you
can discern that a voter's best political interest would be served by that?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[endquote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Yes.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">You
said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">and
then you think it's little burden to the RCV voter to</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">actually
grok that decision in the voting booth: "Lessee, I really like Andy over
Bob, but I can live with either and since Michael Ossipoff recommends
equally-ranking the top set, I'll rank Bob equal to Andy, just to make sure
that this will more effectively defeat Curtis whom I don't want</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">elected?"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[endquote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Correct,
if Andy & Bob are in your strong top-set, and Curtis is in your strong
bottom-set.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">By
the definition of the strong top & bottom sets, the important thing is
which set the winner comes from.<span> </span>Choosing
_between_ your strong top & bottom sets is incomparably more important than
choosing within your strong top-set.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">So,
in a rank method, top-rank Andy & Bob. In Approval, approve Andy & Bob.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">You
said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">you
think a voter would prefer that to simply ranking Andy > Bob > Curtis?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[endquote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">If
I believed that to always be so, then I’d only advocate Approval. I recognize
and admit that many people want or would need ranking in order of preference. I’m
merely saying that it’s more advisable to top-rank your top-set.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">That’s
one reason why I say that, as a voting-system reform, Approval is good enough.<span> </span>…except that there’s a psychological need for
rankings, partly to avoid the voting-errors of overcompromisers & rival
parties, which is why I’d include Bucklin, MDDA, & MDDAsc in a complete
voting-system.<span> </span>…along with Approval
& Score.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">You
said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">the
main reason we want to use other systems than Plurality is to reduce the burden
of tactical voting on voters and let them express their political interest with
little worry about shooting</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">themselves
in the foot and voter regret. tactical voting is not pleasant. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[endquote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Agreed.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">By
“tactical voting” I mean voting according to alleged predictive information. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">I
claim that voting in Approval doesn’t need predictive information. Voting in
Approval needn’t be tactical. We disagree on that, and I guess that’s an
impasse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Top-ranking
your top-set isn’t tactical voting.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">You
said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">and
another reason is to reduce the effect of voting *strategy* by campaigns or
interest groups trying to swing elections by persuading a quantity of voters to
vote a certain way.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[quote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Not
so much Internet, but corporate mass-media. TV & radio “news” &
commentary, including NPR.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">But
yes, a good voting system, one that meets FBC, frees voters from the supposed
lesser-of-2-evils problem that the media would otherwise impose on them.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">But,if
we could get a better voting-system, if we could get honest verifiable
vote-counting, then we’d surely be able to get honest, open, participatory
& agenda-free media too.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">All
of those genuine-democracy requirements would be present in Utopia.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">You
said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">i
don't see how this advice</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">is
attractive to regular voters, who want to be heard, who don't want surprizes
because of irregularities. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[endquote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Top-voting
your strong top-set is the best way to avoid an unpleasant surprise.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">You
said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">why
would they be motivated to do that? why would they be motivated to even
try to remember such advice and its detail?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">[quote]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">What
detail? Top-vote your strong top-set. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">-------------------------------------------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">By
the way, yes I was a bit unfair to Ranked-Pairs(wv)<span> </span>(…of which MAM is the best refinement).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Among
the methods that look only at pairwise-defeat-strength. RP(wv) is the ideal best.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Its
protection of ranked candidates against unranked ones is unequalled, because
the defeat of a CWs requires burial, and burial is (hopefully) deterred by wv’s
penalty for failed burial.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">It’s
just that RV doesn’t meet FBC, and has chicken dilemma, without offering any
easy, convenient and reliable way to avoid it. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Besides,
that burial-deterrence is somewhat iffy, because, if the CWs is in your strong
bottom-set, you aren’t really deterred from trying burial against hir. ….and
hence the possibility of the perpetual burial fiasco.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">MDDA
& MDDAsc meet FBC, & provide a convenient, easy & reliable way to
avoid chicken-dilemma.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">If
you’re going to propose a rank-balloting method (with the acceptance-problem
that all rank-balloting methods have), then propose one that meets FBC &
doesn’t have a chicken-dilemma problem. By avoiding chicken-dilemma problem,
and keeping FBC, you’re getting the full promise of rank-balloting.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">When
you propose a voting system for Burlington, I’d suggest a multi-method
proposal:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Approval</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Score</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Bucklin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">MDDA</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">MDDAsc</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Offer
those to an initiative-proposal committee. Talk about them with members of the
public, in conversations, polls, and focus-groups.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Don’t
underestimate the benefit from Approval & Score.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Score
is just Approval, with the option for fractional approval, for greater
sincerity, to soften the results of overcompromisers’ & rival parties’
possibly-mistaken strategic voting.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Approval
& Score have much better chance of acceptance by the public, compared to
any ranking-method.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Then
there’s also the fact that Approval doesn’t require any new
balloting-equipment, ballots or software…other than turning-off the provision
that detects & rejects “overvotes”.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">The
IRV phenomenon gives an erroneous impression of the public acceptability of
ranking-methods. IRV got its popularity only by heavy promotion everywhere,
probably achieved by very heavy funding. Money can accomplish almost anything,
when it comes to convincing the public.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">Michael
Ossipoff</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"courier new"">--</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>