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Hello Steve,<br>
<br>
1) The whole document is available from
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://citation.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/9/9/3/9/pages199397/p199397-1.php">http://citation.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/9/9/3/9/pages199397/p199397-1.php</a><br>
to
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://citation.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/9/9/3/9/pages199397/p199397-10.php">http://citation.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/9/9/3/9/pages199397/p199397-10.php</a><br>
You can copy (Ctrl-C) any of the 10 pages in a text document...<br>
<br>
2) I will read your APR document as soon I find which software opens
.odt document...<br>
<br>
For the moment I can only give some comments on your APR comparison.
I am sorry if it sounds negative but it is not. I just want more
details about the few differences between APR and SPPA:<br>
<br>
3) Does APR "geographically or non-geographically defined voluntary
organizations (e.g. political parties, interest groups)" <i>that</i>
"will be officially recognized as electoral 'associations" prevent<br>
outsiders to infiltrate artificially an electoral 'associations?
Like partisan of a mainstream idea that would decide to sink another
debate using their strong majority...? Lets suppose that massive<br>
supporters of gay weddings want to dilute a more 50%-50% debate
about adoption froms homosexual parents (just an example). Would APR
detect organized infiltration movements?<br>
<br>
4) What happens if a very low number of APR representatives controls
a majority (more than 50%) of the parliament voices? Oligarchy?<br>
<br>
5) SPPA garantees a stable bipartite coalition around the main
political parties, despite balanced national split supports like
30%, 18%, 17%, 14%, 11% and 10%. <br>
In such a case, it would boost the main party to 50% and reduce the
mandate to 3/7 of tis original length to ensure fairness. How does
APR handle unstable splits?<br>
<br>
6) How do you organize fair debates when a voter can choose between
a huge amount of candidates?<br>
<br>
It might take some time before I comment: plenty of work...<br>
S. Rouillon<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 2015-07-21 19:53, steve bosworth a
écrit :<br>
</div>
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<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in; page-break-before:
always;">
<font color="#1c1c1c"> </font><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 16pt;" size="4"><b><br>
</b></font></font></p>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">> From:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:election-methods-request@lists.electorama.com">election-methods-request@lists.electorama.com</a><br>
> Subject:
Election-Methods Digest, Vol 133, Issue 17<br>
> To:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com">election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a><br>
> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015
12:01:59 -0700<br>
> …..........................<br>
> 1. Real
Democracy (St?phane Rouillon)<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>
<br>
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 23:09:04 -0400<br>
> From: St?phane
Rouillon <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephane.rouillon@sympatico.ca"><stephane.rouillon@sympatico.ca></a><br>
> To:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com">election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">> Subject:
[EM] Real
Democracy (1): Steve 1st dialogue with Stephane Rouillon</p>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br>
> Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:BLU437-SMTP1063BACDACEABF3872910208F860@phx.gbl"><BLU437-SMTP1063BACDACEABF3872910208F860@phx.gbl></a><br>
>
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Format="flowed"<br>
> </p>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">Stephane Rouillon
wrote:<br>
> <br>
>R: I do not know if you would find it real
democracy, but SPPA is what I <br>
> have to offer best...<br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://citation.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/9/9/3/9/p199397_index.html">http://citation.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/9/9/3/9/p199397_index.html</a><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://votebook.ca/pdf/SPPAforMPSA13042007.pdf">http://votebook.ca/pdf/SPPAforMPSA13042007.pdf</a><br>
> <br>
> Dr
Rouillon.<br>
> </p>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">>>Steve
(S): I
have studied your very useful but brief
bullet-point-type-presentation of SPPA. Thank you. I hope you
will
send me more details, partly in response to my following
points and
suggestions.</p>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">Our aims and
values
seem to be almost identical. Therefore, if you have the time,
I
would appreciate it if you would study my article ('Equal
Voting
Sustained') to see whether or not Associational Proportional
Representation (APR) might not serve your aims even more
completely
than your current version of SPPA. I will send you (or anyone
else)
this article separately upon request.</p>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">For example, with
regard to your list of SPPA's benefits, APR would seem to
compare as
follows:</p>
<br>
<ul>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">still needs
only one visit to the polling station: Yes.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">maintains the
accountability link with elected members: Yes.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">gathers
sincere preferences: Yes.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">allows
ordering of the issues by the electorate: APR allows this
to some extent during its 'primary election' which
determines which geographically or non-geographically
defined voluntary organizations (e.g. political parties,
interest groups) will be officially recognized as
electoral 'associations'. At the same time, each citizen
chooses through which one she will rank as few or as many
candidates in the whole country as she might wish during
the later general election.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">reduces the
antagonism between candidates: APR candidates would have
every incentive both to be very clear and exact about her
own scale of values and policy proposals, and to
negotiate, even with opponents, any compromises necessary,
to achieve agreements (e.g. to help form a majority
coalition) to legislate at least some of her policy goals.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">vanishes vote
splitting issues: APR give no incentive (or possibility)
to split votes.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">raises the
individual approbation rate of elected members: Each APR
rep will have a 'weighted vote' in the legislative
assembly exactly equal to the number of citizens who have
helped her to be elected – no vote is wasted and continues
into the assembly.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">treats all
candidates equally (independents included)! Completely!
For example, 'independents' could either form an
'association' by themselves, or seek to represent any
association's agenda that any of them might favor.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">eliminates
the democratic deficit: Completely!</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">treats all
political parties equally (no quota): Completely!</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">gives to
every voter the same weight: Completely!</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">elects
party-line builder: Yes, if this refers to the building
and sustaining of a working majority coalition (and also
its government in a parliamentary system).</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">guarantees
stable coalitions of two parties: see previous response.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">guarantees
twice the number of MPs in the worst case: No, APR
guarantees only the exact proportional election of the
pre-established number of MPs.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">preserves
learning [about] a small number of candidates to vote
[for]: If she wishes, APR allows a citizen to vote for
only one candidate in the country. Alternatively, she can
rank as few or as many candidates in the whole country as
she might wish.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">reduces
strategic nominations: Completely!</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">hinders
bribing electorate [for]support: as much as possible.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">avoids
regional confrontation: APR provides alternatives to
regional conflicts yet would allow any such conflicts to
be represented, i.e. exactly in proportion to the number
of citizens who care most about them.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">eliminates
gerrymandering: Completely!</p>
</li>
</ul>
<br>
To facilitate any of
our future discussions, it might sometime be helpful if I could
'cut
and paste' some of your words (like the above) to comment upon
them. Thus, might it be possible for you separately to email me
your
relevant SPPA works in a suitable [?Word?] format so that I
could do
this?<br>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">I look forward to
your
feedback.</p>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br>
</p>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;">Steve</p>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br>
</p>
<br>
<p class="western" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br>
</p>
<br>
</div>
<br>
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