<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>On 28 Nov 2014, at 23:32, steve bosworth <<a href="mailto:stevebosworth@hotmail.com">stevebosworth@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">
S: Perhaps you would be willing to focus on and explain your own electoral
recommendations with regard to a specific country: your own, the UK, the USA,
or ???????????<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That would help me better
to understand your current position.</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Not very easy. I have a proportional multiparty background, so I tend to lean in that direction, but when we talk e.g. about the USA, I try to be neutral, just commenting on what might work for your needs (whatever they are).</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">J:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>> In the current state of affairs,
globally, in multi- winner systems. In most cases I'd support <span style="color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">good proportionality</span> (could be political,
geographical and others if needed), avoidance of obvious strategic incentives
an fraud, <span style="color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">good responsiveness to voter opinions,
and good understandability</span>. I thus want to see <span style="color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">working
democracies</span> around.<br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It would help even more if you would clarify
what you mean by “good” in each of the above phrases.</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>good proportionality = simply, n% of the votes (or voters or citizens in some cases) gives n% of the seats</div><div><br></div><div>good responsiveness to voter opinions = voters will feel that if they have some opinion, the outcome of the election will reflect that opinion right away, and the policy, the government, the laws, the ruling parties etc. will change as a result of that expressed opinion (voters will not feel e.g. that whatever way they vote, the rulers and policy will stay the same anyway)</div><div><br></div><div>good understandability = voters understand how to vote, what each candiate and party stands for, and how the results will change depending on how people vote (the whole process should thus be 100% understood by all the voters, from candidate nomination and party formation to government formation and all the way to the next election)</div><div><br></div><div>working demoracy = could be said to mean that most voters think that "government = us", i.e. there are no "others" that rule the country instead of the voters (as a result there is no need for mutinies, complaints etc.)</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">I think you already understand that for me,
an electoral system is “good” to the extent that it fully respects the equality
of each citizen by allowing each to guarantee that his or her vote will never
be wasted</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That's one good target. It is good to never waste votes, or at least to waste them seldom enough so that voters can vote as if no votes would be ever wasted.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">
J:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That is one approach to making a <span style="color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">sensible system</span>. I'd like to see the <span style="color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">weighted vote</span> approach <span style="color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">tested
somewhere</span>.</span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Of course, I would also like to see it
tested.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>However, before such a test, do
you see any specific reasons to think that it would at all be dangerous or
destructive?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I don’t.<br></span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div> I don't see any such major problems that would make this approach unusable. One of my smaller practical implementation related concerns is possible big differences in voting power. But that can be easily fixed by limiting the max voting power.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">S:</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I can see why you might say that the “central
cities would” have “more” seats, but it is pejorative to say this is
“disproportionate”.</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">What value do you
have in mind to make you see these “more seats” to be “bad”?</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>A system that tends to give one part of the country more seats than others is not geographically proportional. I guess we can not assume that central cities or their candidates would be somehow more valuable, and we would therefore want this bias to exist. Typically different parts of the country have somewhat different viewpoints, and therefore we want to eliminate also this kind of (typical voting behaviour based) bias.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">
J:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>With geographical proportionality I
don't mean proportionality with respect to where the land is but
proportionality with respect to where people live.</span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Is not this “proportionality” determined by
the number of people who live there?</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That is the typical case. (Alternatively one could also base it on the number of voters or casted votes.)</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">J:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>That is the common approach. <span style="color: rgb(0, 176, 240);">Political/party proportionality is normally more
important than geographical proportionality</span>. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Again, is not this proportionality also
determined by the number of people who voted for each party?</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">J:
You can have both at the same time. In some places also the land area is used
in a proportional way [i.e. to determine the number of reps allowed to
represent these hectors], but that is to my understanding very rare.</span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">S:
Do you think that this could ever be properly justified?</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I guess that is most often based on tradition. For example in the USA some states may have more power than others per voter since that's what people agreed when the federation was formed.</div><div><br></div><div>Land mass based proportionality may make sense also in places where people feel that one key function of the society in question is to take care of the land / nature. Maybe we are talking about some nature related unit here. Also some very green countries could be partially proportional in this way (probably not very common).</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">S:</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Why isn’t APR’s exact, rather than “rough”,
proportionality better?</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Exact proportionality is a good target. Often rough proportionality is good enough. Sometimes one can trade exact proportionality to some other nice feature. I discussed earlier also the interest to implement many different proportionalities at the same time. This often leads to some rounding errors that force the system to deviate from exact proportionality. The approach of having representatives with different voting power can be used also to fix this kind of rounding errors.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">> > J: The reason behind that is that the best known candidates often
live in the large cities, and small town people typically vote city candidates
more often than city voters vote for the small town candidates. Many countries
use multi-winner districts because of this reason.<br style="mso-special-character: line-break;">
<o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>True, but is this better than the
representation through the electoral “associations” offered by APR?</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It is a matter of taste which features are important and which ones are not. Some variant of APR could well implement also geographical proportionality (without losing too much of its original flavour).</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">S:
Above and below, you are accurately describing some various electoral practices
in the world but I am waiting to understanding your prime value or hierarchy of
values which might guide you to decide on which reforms would best suite
different unsatisfactory circumstances.</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Perhaps this will be clarified in the light of the explanations of
exactly what you might mean above by “good”.</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Maybe I was asking you if you think that also geographic proportionality should be respected just like accurate political proportionality is respected in APR. I come from a background with geographic proportionality, and the single winner districts of USA implemnt one very strict model of geographic proportionality today. That's why this topic may be of interest to both of us. You will decide if it is important for the future that you are planning.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">>
I'm not proposing to use land area as one basis of proportionality in this
case.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In most countries the approach of
using "where people live" is one basis of proportionality. This means
that those system put less weight on "who values those areas" (and
more on "who lives in those areas").<br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Do you see any justification for ignoring
what these residents value?</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In what sense would one ignore their values? (Note that geographical and political proportionality can be implemented also simultaneously. Land mass based proportionality would give different weights to different voters, but normal geographical proportionality gives all voters the same weight.)</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">J:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>…………If one … wants to let the voters decide,
then one can take the "who values those areas" approach….<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>My claim is that in the USA, if only one
single district is used, Hollywood, Washington D.C. and New York would probably
get more representatives than their relative size of the population is, and
Montana, Idaho, and non central areas within each state less.<br>
> <br>
S:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Do you see this as a problem,
provided also that each American citizen would have a rep in the US House of
Representatives with a weighted vote who he or she trusts most? </span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>A typical potential problem could be that most government money and effort would be spent in serving those few central cities, and nobody would be interested of the problems of the remote areas. You could say that voters can now blame themselves, and that they could have voted only for the candidtes of their own area. But typical voters are not that organized. They tend to vote for the most visible figures anyway, and that leads to some bias in favour of the central cities and the most visible candidates. In some sense geographical proportionality forces the system to elect representatives that are not most popular, but that is intended to be for the benefit of the voters, and to represent them and their opinions better and more accurately than the voters would vote themselves (if they were given the chance to vote for the public figures that they know from TV).</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">
<o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman"></font>Are there some compelling reasons?<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>There are many reasons why having a primary could be less than optimal. Additional complexity and costs is one thing. If you can do it at one round, why not. In the USA the primaries are needed today mainly because of the FPTP method. In APR you can choose freely.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">
<o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: center;" class="MsoNormal" align="center"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 16pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">How the Electoral Associations Produced
by APR’s Primary Elections Increase Positive Voting<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">Let me try
to explain more fully why I think that APR without its Primary and the
‘official electoral associations’ it discovers would only be a second best APR
option.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Firstly and most obviously, APR
would seem to help maximize the quality of representation for each citizen
during the general election by making it relatively easy for each elector
secretly to rank as many candidates in the whole country as each might
wish.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This enables each to guarantee
that their vote will be added to the ‘weighted vote’ in the legislative
assembly of their most favoured representative (or most favoured by their first
choice but eliminated candidate).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span></span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Primaries and associations is one way to avoid wasting votes. Another one would be ranked votes (to individual candidates) with inheritance to parties / associations that have been formed in some other way before the election.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">However, this qualitative advantage would seem also to be enhanced
further by the consequences of APR’s Primary election.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The Primary discovers both the popular
voluntary organizations in civil society that will be recognized as the
official electoral ‘associations’, and the number of representatives each will
be allow to elect to the assembly months later during the general
election.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>To the extent that this would
both help to energize these popular associations politically and stimulate more
attractive candidates to seek office in the general election, the quality of
representation in the assembly would be raised.<o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">APR’s Primary differs from the ones
that are sometimes used currently, e.g. in the USA.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It would not decide which one of each party's
candidates will run in the general election.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Instead, it allows each citizen to choose to become a voting-member of
his or her most favoured electoral ‘association' for general election
purposes.</span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Allows and forces.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>These associations are
established by citizens choosing them from the list of all the voluntary
organizations in the country that want to elect at least one member of the
legislative assembly directly.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I guess you need also rules on how associations can be formed before the plenary.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">This list
would have been compiled previously by the central electoral commission.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>These organizations need not be
geographically defined and would probably also include all the political
parties, many of the existing electoral districts, and many interest groups
(e.g. business, labour, professional, social, environmental, recreational,
ethnic, or religious). <o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">Again, each citizen becomes an elector
for the later general election through one of these associations by ranking as
many of these applicant organizations as they might wish during the
Primary.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>A citizen would rank the
organization first that he or she believes will offer the most attractive
candidates during the general election, </span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">the organization that accords best with his
own values and interests</span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span></span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">Any citizen
that does not participate in the Primary is automatically registered as a voter
in the geographically defined association (district) in which he or she
resides.<o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">Citizens
know these organizations through their work, profession, daily lives, and/or
their activities throughout the year.</span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">The daily living connections that people have
with these organizations help them to know how to vote and how otherwise to
participate politically in accord with their own valued life experiences.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The Primary’s counting of these rankings
would reveal the ‘approximate’ mathematical importance given by the public to
each of the geographically or non-geographically defined, applicant
organizations with regard to political life.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>Still, the ‘exact’ mathematical importance of each would instead be
determined later by citizens’ secret votes during the general election, these
being added to the weighted votes of each ‘association’s’
representative(s).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Each organization
discovered to be one of the most popular organizations which together contain
all citizens as their electors for general election purposes is officially
recognized as an ‘association’.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The more
popular an ‘association’ is discovered to be, the more representatives it will
be allowed to elect (see p. 6 and Endnote 5 of my article).</span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: Cambria; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">In this way,
APR’s Primary also enables all citizens and the state itself to discover which
voluntary organizations should be officially recognized to have this
proportionate extra political status and electoral function.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It would also be conducive t</span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">o more rational
participation on the part of citizens:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>While choosing their voting membership during the Primary, each citizen
is prompted to clarify their own scale of values and to decide on which
organization most completely agrees with this scale.</span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman"></font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">At the same
time, the recognition of these associations would provide an additional
democratic channel for more enthusiastic participation in the political process
both by these associations and their electors. This recognition also gives each
association and its elected rep(s) an opportunity to plan and to focus their
combined resources more efficiently to help shape the binding decisions taken
by the state.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The primary could contribute positively to the discussion and formation of different associations. There could of course be also other approaches to free formation of associations.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">The time
difference as well as the division of functions between the Primary and the general
election would increase the opportunities for this coordination and rational
political thinking to take place on the part of all concerned. </span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US">This time gap also gives
each association time to invite and to finalize the list of candidates who wish
to represent it. It also gives time for potential candidates to apply and to
prepare for the general election. The general election then additionally
prompts each citizen more carefully to rank the individual candidates by
considering which ones are more likely to work and vote for laws and policies
in accord with the citizens own scale of values.</span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">In fact,
such rational thinking would seem to be assisted by the important knowledge
discovered by the Primary.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>It would have
more reliably discovered the degree to which each previously well known, less
know, and unknown ideology, party, interest group, or club is, or is not,
relevant to the real concerns of the people.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>This knowledge would enable all citizens, associations, potential
candidates, and representatives more efficiently to plan how each can help to
shape the laws of the land during the coming general election and after.<br style="mso-special-character: line-break;">
<br style="mso-special-character: line-break;">
<o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">As a result
of the above arrangements, APR, more than other systems, would seem to assist
the development of a much closer identity between each elector and his
representative, a more intense personal, ideological and mutual bond.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This would seem to contrast, on average, with
the more defuse and vague relations between the agendas of each elector and the
representatives elected by other systems. </span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That is a rather general and strong statement.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">Again, the
evolution of these closer relationships between electors, associations, and
representatives would grow partly as a result of the time between the two
elections.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Firstly, the “bottom-up”
Primary might prompt more electors to start to familiarize themselves with the association’s
officials, activists, and other potential candidates of their preferred
organizations.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Thus, each APR
representative is more likely to have been known and explicitly favoured by his
electors at least several months before the general election.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Consequently, the ideological fit between
each set of APR’s associations, electors, and representatives is likely to be
much closer than that between each set of parties, districts, electors, and representatives
in other systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">As a
consequence of this bond, the focus of each APR representative’s work both
within the assembly and with his electors and association is more likely to be
clear.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This increases the probability
that each elector of a given association’s representative(s) will also be
represented more efficiently in the assembly, that the quality of
representation offered by APR is likely to be better than that provided by
other systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">Moreover, a
legislative assembly composed of such different, clashing and well focused reps
would seem more likely to provide an optimal debating and negotiating chamber
for the production of laws based on evidence and rational thought. This is
because it would more accurately reflect the real variety and intensity of
people’s concerns.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>If so, this assembly
would also be better able to respond to the imperative to form a working
majority in the assembly in order to produce wise legislative solutions to
problems, solutions also agreeable to a majority of the people.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The fact that each APR representative, on
average, is more likely to be focused and trusted by his or her electors would seem
better to enable them also to arrive at any necessary compromises between the
contending parties and representatives to achieve their common ends.<o:p></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US">Finally, in
addition to the above, it is relevant to note that many of APR’s ‘associations’
would presumably have communication and mobilization resources that are
entirely independent of celebrity, the richest sections of society, and the
mass media.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Thus, the addition of APR to
an existing political system would probably</span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> help reduce the relative power of these sometimes
anti-democratic forces in determining how people and their representatives
vote.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This is because many citizens
could more firmly, securely, and independently use the following opportunity
provided by APR:<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>to see their favoured
association and its representatives as providing an essential part of the best
way to promote and protect their own abiding interests and values.</span><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;"> </span></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think APR has many interesting features that are worth discussing. I wouldn't say that it is a ready made solution to most political problems.</div><div><br></div><div>Juho</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></o:p></span></p><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br> </div>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>----</span><br><span>Election-Methods mailing list - see <a href="http://electorama.com/em">http://electorama.com/em</a> for list info</span><br></div></blockquote><style><!--
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