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      On 7/24/2014 8:39 AM, Toby Pereira wrote:<br>
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        <div>I'm a bit late to the whole winning votes / margins /
          losing votes thing, but my immediate thought here is how well
          losing votes would handle clones. If C is a clone of B but the
          less favoured in the party, in A v B, B will rarely, if ever,
          be ranked fully bottom, whereas the uncloned A could be. So
          would this favour B in a cycle?</div>
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    Toby,  <br>
    <br>
    No.   <br>
    <br>
    It sounds like you have misunderstood   Losing Votes (equal-ranking
    whole) in some way.<br>
    <br>
    If you can give a specific example election (set of ballots) to
    illustrate your concern, I'll respond in more detail.<br>
    <br>
    Chris<br>
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                <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"><b><span
                        style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
                    C.Benham <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cbenham@adam.com.au"><cbenham@adam.com.au></a><br>
                    <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
                    <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:election-methods@lists.electorama.com">election-methods@lists.electorama.com</a> <br>
                    <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                    Wednesday, 23 July 2014, 20:00<br>
                    <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                    Re: [EM] margin vs winning votes<br>
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                  <br clear="none">
                  <br clear="none">
                  BTW, I don't like either of  Winning Votes or Margins.
                  Of the <br clear="none">
                  alternatives that are equivalent to both when all the
                  voters give a<br clear="none">
                  full strict ranking I think the best is  Losing Votes
                  (erw). Ballots <br clear="none">
                  that equal-rank candidates  A and B both above at
                  least one other<br clear="none">
                  candidate are counted in the pairwise contest between
                  A and B as giving <br clear="none">
                  a whole vote to each. Ballots that rank A and B
                  equal-bottom<br clear="none">
                  (or truncate A and B) count as zero to both in their
                  pairwise contest. <br clear="none">
                  The method considers that the greater the number of
                  votes<br clear="none">
                  on the losing side, the weaker the pairwise defeat.<br
                    clear="none">
                  <br clear="none">
                  And not limiting ourselves to alternatives that are
                  equivalent to <br clear="none">
                  Margins and Winning Votes (and Losing Votes) when all
                  the voters<br clear="none">
                  give a full strict ranking, I think better still is 
                  "MinMax Losing <br clear="none">
                  Votes (erw) Margins", which I first suggested in April
                  this year.<br clear="none">
                  <br clear="none">
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/2014-April/097935.html"
                    target="_blank" shape="rect">http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/2014-April/097935.html</a><br
                    clear="none">
                  <br clear="none">
                  Chris  Benham<br clear="none">
                  <br clear="none">
                  <br>
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