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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Good evening Fred<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Gohlke: … (If) a radical third party had formed, I think it's effect<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> would have moved the result closer to an extreme.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Gohlke: May we change this to: "If you change the voting method<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> the major parties will be weaker and non-major party <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> candidates will be stronger."? If so, I agree<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>[assuming a Condorcet voting system]. It is true that more extreme parties would increase in numbers and first round votes. Why because they can always have a second choice, the L or C candidates, or the M the moderate/non-partisan as their third choice which would win most of the elections.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The non-major parties would increase in numbers (stronger in numbers yes, but even less likely to be elected) and at the expense of the two major parties but still the moderate (non-partisan) would have a greater chance of winning. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Gohlke: In your original post, you equated M to non-partisan/independent and thereafter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> spoke of the M (or Moderate) candidate in a way that suggests there is a party<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> of moderates or independents.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Most candidates running as an independent are “non-partisan”. Although there are “Independent Parties” that purport to be middle of the road (M). All I’m saying is that a moderate non-partisan candidate has a greater chance to be elected with a Condorcet election system. In first-past-the-post voting system the middle tends to be squeezed out and results in a two party dominated system. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Gohlke: I tend to think that those who join a party (even of moderates or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal> independents) are no longer non-partisan.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You are right if you join a party, by definition, you are no longer non-partisan. However there are a lot of moderates and independents who are non-partisan.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Gohlke: … (comments) referring to the “Definition of non-partisan”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>There are different classifications of people:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>Total population (which is not relevant to the discussion).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>Total voting age population<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>Registered voters<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>Voters<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Now, technically all those in the voting age population that are not registered to vote are “non-partisan” (i.e. not in a party). But this is not the normal definition of “non-partisan”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Generally when you register you must decide to be partisan or non-partisan (although in some states you don’t have to choose). Most people (standard definition) would use this definition of non-partisan.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Using the standard definition the non-partisan’s then they are NOT in the majority. Also in a General Election the non-partisan’s are even a smaller percent of those that vote.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>However in the General election a registered partisan voter can vote for a non-partisan candidate or even vote for the other major party candidate, thus <u>in effect</u> all voters in the General Election are non-partisan/independent.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The partisan/non-partisan definition only has relevant in the primaries. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Gohlke: An electoral system that excludes over 80% of its people from the process of selecting their<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> elected representatives cannot be called a democracy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>(</span><span lang=EN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Wikipedia) “Democracy is a political system based upon the concept of "rule by the people …who have … the <u>right</u> to hold some form of political power”.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>A county where the voting age population have the <u>right</u> to vote is considered a democracy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>However I agree with you that it would be a much better democracy if more people voted.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Don Hoffard<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>