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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I do not know what this email is asking. There’s so much that is not relevant in it that I don’t know how answer it. It’s a badly-formed question, so I don’t have any way to answer it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Please give me an up-r-down vote on whatever it is you are talking about. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> election-methods-bounces@lists.electorama.com [mailto:election-methods-bounces@lists.electorama.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Ossipoff<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> election-methods@electorama.com<br><b>Subject:</b> [EM] To Condorcetists:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Condorcetists:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>You want to quibble forever about which rank-count is the best.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>You object that Approval doesn't let you help your 1st and 2nd choices against your last choice, while still helping your<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>1st choice against your 2nd choice.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But the _big_ benefit starts when everyone can support their 1st and 2nd choices at all.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Plurality very effectively puts a gag on everyone who would like something better than the corrupt sleazes<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>that your tv offers as "the two choices".<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>"We have to hold our nose and vote for the lesser-evil [Democrat], so that we don't waste our vote."<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Do you have any idea how things would be if everyone could actually support their favorites, and without<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>having to try to guess on which one the other similar voters would be combining their support?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Do you understand the difference between "liked" and "unliked"? And what would happen if everyone could support<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>whom and what they actually like best?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Do you have any idea how far-reaching the resulting changes would be?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>No, I'm not saying that the resulting country and world would be perfect in every way. I'm saying that it<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>would be what people actually want--something that they can support without holding their nose. But don't<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>underestimate the magnitude of that change.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Though I consider Approval to be the best in some meaningful ways, I also would like more--as you would.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But, as I said, most of the benefit comes from everyone being able to support 1st choice and 2nd choice _at all_. Let's not<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>be greedy and dwaddle around forever about what else we could ideally get. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Do you want improvement or not? Or would you rather debate forever?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>And, as for helping 1st choice over 2nd choice, while helping both over last choice, free of strategy need:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>You're in deinal about Gibbard-Satterthwaite.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>You're in denial about Condorcet's blatant and full-magnitude co-operation/defection problem.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>And you're in denial about millions of voters' need to litterally maximally help the Democrat beat the Republican.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>And that's not even counting the good chance of successful offensive burial strategy when there are more than 3 candidates.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mike Ossipoff<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>