<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>FPTP brings us runoffs because they have a need - their voters can like more than one but cannot vote for more than one in any election. Majority makes sense for them and they can force that by selecting among only two in a runoff.</div><div><br></div><div>Runoffs are expensive for all involved, so it is not clear that a majority should be demanded in methods such as Condorcet that allow more complete expression and counting of desires in the main election.</div><div><br></div><div>Some, to compete among methods, would combine selected methods for a test election, and use a runoff if the methods disagreed as to winner.</div><div>. I do not object to such for the purpose of testing methods, but do object to imposing it on voters in an otherwise normal election - it adds unneeded complications for those voters.</div><div><br></div><div>Dave Ketchum</div><br><div><div>On Feb 2, 2012, at 8:15 PM, Bruce Gilson wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Jameson Quinn <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jameson.quinn@gmail.com">jameson.quinn@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote"><p>For combined systems, I definitely prefer Abd's suggestion: vote a Range ballot, count it by various rules, and if the winner by the different rules does not agree, hold a runoff. In most cases, it would agree; and in the rest, a runoff would be a worthwhile second look at the best candidates, not a timewasting requirement to repeat a determination already given.</p> </blockquote><div> </div></div><div><br>As I have said numerous times, I really do not like any system that would require a runoff. The big thing I dislike is that a voter, having once taken the trouble to go to his polling place to cast a vote, now finds he has to go yet again to settle the question -- in effect, his previous trip was wasted. A secondary problem is that the county, city, or whoever runs elections has to spend the money to set up another poll. If schools have to be closed to use the building as a polling place, there is further disruption.</div> <div> </div><div>Abd likes runoffs -- this argument I've had with him numerous times. I absolutely detest them, for the reasons have just cited. I really think that any method of holding elections that requires runoffs is immediately unacceptable.</div> </blockquote></div><br></body></html>