<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Jameson Quinn <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jameson.quinn@gmail.com">jameson.quinn@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
There is a fundamental difference between two-party dominance, which will probably not change any time soon, and a two-party duopoly. 45%, 40%, 8%, 5%... is dominance; 51% 47% 1%... is duopoly. Any system which gives bad enough results when there are more than two parties will be a two party duopoly; and it seems highly possible that that includes IRV. And I think that many of the current problems, including the outsized power of "$peech", are inevitable consequences of a monopoly.</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>duopoly you mean? </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div>
<br></div><div>David, you believe differently. But your guesses about how things would work are just that. You can't point to a real-world example. And so, as you've essentially admitted, we're not likely to believe you until you do have evidence. Nor, in my opinion, should we.</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I can offer the history of the US prior to the past 40 years as evidence that a 2-party duopolized system can work. </div><div><br></div><div>It is not a coincidence that from 1870-1980 that in one of the economically most important states of the US, IL, the competition between the two major parties was handicapped by the use of 3-seat quasi-PR state rep election rule. This enabled other states who were economically more dependent on IL to be politically independent of IL. They experimented and a lot of those experiments spilled over to foster critical changes in the rest of the USA. </div>
<div><br></div><div>All of this while FPTP was still being used...</div><div><br></div><div>So why do you claim I don't have evidence? The US doesn't need an EU-system to reinvigorate its democracy. It needs to draw from its own history and to trust that local activism will have a trickle-up effect on national and international outcomes. </div>
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<div><br></div><div>In other words: You could be right. So stop arguing about this and go out there and prove it.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>will do.</div><div><br></div><div>dlw </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><br></div><div>Jameson</div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">2011/12/2 David L Wetzell <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wetzelld@gmail.com" target="_blank">wetzelld@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><span>---------- Forwarded message ----------</span><br>
<span>From: MIKE OSSIPOFF <<a href="mailto:nkklrp@hotmail.com" target="_blank">nkklrp@hotmail.com</a>></span><br>
<span>To: <<a href="mailto:election-methods@electorama.com" target="_blank">election-methods@electorama.com</a>></span><br>
<span>Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:19:28 +0000</span><br>
<span>Subject: [EM] IRV's adequacy depends on a two-party system</span><br>
<div><div dir="ltr"><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap"><br>David Wetzel said:<br><br>s for center-squeezing, that's not really a problem in the US as a<br>
whole...<br>Third parties are too small and scattered.<br><br>[endquote]<br><br>MO: Ok, so David is saying that IRV is adequate adequate only in a two-party system.<br><br>dlw: David is saying,</pre><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap">
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change [two-party dominated system in US]</pre><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap">and the courage to change the things I can change [rallying support of others around American forms of PR + IRV]</pre>
<pre style="white-space:pre-wrap">and the wisdom to tell the difference between a dysfunctional two-party system and one that would "work".</pre><span><font color="#888888"><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap">dlw</pre>
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