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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Hi</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>See below</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Dharma</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> raphfrk@netscape.net
[mailto:raphfrk@netscape.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 5 October 2006 8:49
AM<BR><B>To:</B> election-methods@electorama.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [EM]
Disproportionate or proportionate representation system<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Dharma (subscribed lists) wrote:<BR><BR>> What are the views on this
sort of electoral system - is it proportional<SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace"><BR>> </SPAN>representation or
disproportional.<BR><BR><< the top 2 parties gets 40% of the seats each
and the the 3rd party gets 20% >><SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=375444102-07102006></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>D:
Yes. And we never truly know the number of electors in each party. That
is A could fluctuate around 30+/-10 and so on. Isn't it proportional if
the number of electors in each group actually do reflect the numbers actually
elected as representatives.? Otherwise it is
disproportional.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=375444102-07102006> </SPAN><BR></DIV><PRE>> The result, assuming the following numbers of electors:<BR></PRE>
><BR>> A - 30<BR>> B - 90<BR>> C - 15<BR><BR>Are the electors
assigned in proportion to the popular support for the<BR>parties?<SPAN
class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<DIV><SPAN class=375444102-07102006></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Not
necessarily. Say there are 3 ethic groups as the basis of the
assigning. The number of electors in each group is below and as are the
voting proportions. So groups A, B, C are different ethnic groups within
a particular association.</FONT> </SPAN><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>> A - 30 get a percentage of 24/60 votes<BR>> B - 90 get a
percentage of 24/60 votes<BR>> C - 15 get a percentage of 12/60 votes<BR>
> <BR>> Then reducing each down to one person<BR>><BR>> A - 1
person gets 1.333% of the election rights<BR>> B - 1 person gets 0.444% of
the election rights<BR>> C - 1 person gets 1.333% of the election
rights<BR>><BR>> The vote of a B is worth only 1/3rd of any other
vote.<BR><BR>Right, this gives less voting power to electors from group
A.<SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=375444102-07102006></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=375444102-07102006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Did you mean group B?</FONT> </SPAN><BR></DIV><BR>
However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, party<BR>A might
assign 90 electors even though it has only 40% of the <BR>popular vote. In
effect, each party would decide if it wants lots<BR>of low power
representatives or a small number of high power <BR>representatives. I doubt
that is what you meant though ?<BR><BR>However, an issue with the suggestion
is that it gives all 3<BR>parties equal power if they block vote. Any two
parties will<BR>have 50%+ of the vote. This means that even though party C
is<BR>the weakest party, it gets equal say to the other 2. If the <BR>top 2
parties don't maintain party discipline, then party <SPAN class=correction
id="">C's</SPAN><BR>power is somewhat diminished as in a free vote,
co-operation <BR>between the top 2 parties is improved.<BR><BR>What is the
reason for suggesting this system ? I assume it is<BR>to <SPAN
class=correction id="">guarantee</SPAN> that a 3rd party exists, or is it to
ensure that no<BR>party gets an outright majority ?<BR><BR>(assuming that it
won't defeat the purpose)<BR>What about having the rule <SPAN class=correction
id="">recognising</SPAN> when a party gets an outright <BR>majority.<BR><BR>A
is the largest party. B is next and C is 3rd largest.<BR><BR>Voters can vote
for any party, but only the top 3 parties gets any seats.<BR><BR>if A gets
> 50%, the split is:<BR><BR>A: 55%<BR>B: 30%<BR>C: 15%<BR><BR>If A gets
more than 1/3 and <= 50%<BR><BR>A: 45%<BR>B: 35%<BR>C: 25%<BR><BR>If A gets
< 1/3 (can only happen with a 4th party "spoiling")<BR><BR>A: 35%<BR>B:
33%<BR>C: 32%<BR><BR>Such a system isn't very fair on the 4th party. Also,
proportional<BR>systems can ensure that a party gets an exact percentage to
match its <BR>popular support.<BR><BR>I think something like asset voting,
<SPAN class=correction id="">PR-STV</SPAN> or even the open party <BR>list
method would be better. They all allow more parties to exist<BR>than 3.<BR>
<BR>I think that preventing 1 party from dominating is best served<BR>by
having a system that allows multiple parties to exist rather than<BR>force it
. However, ideally, the voting system should not <BR><SPAN class=correction
id="">recognise</SPAN> the <SPAN class=correction id="">existance</SPAN> of
parties at all.<BR>
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