[EM] Simplest Condorcet method to hand count?

[Etjon Basha]

Hi Daniel,

Though I'm sceptical of this, if we stick with the "vote on a machine but
get a printout to cast" paradigm, I reckon we would have the machine do the
count for us and could afford all sorts of complex rules.

We only need to be able to audit the input ballots against the physical
printouts, the actual count the system provides given the inputs can be
very easily verified by anyone with a spreadsheet given the inputs are open
sourced.

Regards,

Etjon

On Fri, 23 May 2025, 4:59 am Daniel Kirslis, <dankirslis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Etjon,
>
> This is an interesting question. I agree that the hand-countability of
> ballots, at least in the case of an audit, is an important practical
> feature of an election.
>
> I wonder if the ballot design itself could be modified to suit Condorcet
> methods. So, you rank your candidates on the touch screen voting machine.
> Then, the voting machine prints out your ballot, as is the case now.
> However, rather than simply printing a piece of paper with your ranking, it
> prints out each pairwise preference separately. So, if your ranking was A >
> B > C > D, it would print out 6 ballots:
>
> A>B
> A>C
> A>D
> B>C
> B>D
> C>D
>
> Ballots can then be sorted by type. That way, it is easy to tally the
> ballots into the Condorcet matrix, and any entry into the matrix is easy to
> double check. And, we can audit the count easily, as ballots should sum up
> to the total number of voters, i.e., (A>C + C>A + A=C) should equal the
> total number of voters, which should also equal (A>D + D>A + A=D), and so
> on. And, as is the case now, you would also have a computer count to check
> against.
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2025 at 6:41 AM Etjon Basha via Election-Methods <
> election-methods at lists.electorama.com> wrote:
>
>> Good evening gentlemen,
>>
>> I've been pondering the above issue, and already consulted Gemini who
>> disagrees with me on the practicality of pairwise matrices, so couldn't
>> help a lot.
>>
>> I suspect that compiling pairwise matrices in the context of a hand
>> counted election would be very time consuming, and quite prone to errors
>> and challenges from all parties.
>>
>> Assuming we agree on this (which you might not) is there any practical
>> Condorcet method can can be hand counted?
>>
>> I suspect Nanson is a reasonable candidate. Yes, it still requires
>> log(candidates,2) counting rounds, and each of those rounds require sending
>> a matrix of how many times each candidate was ranked in which position to a
>> central location, so quite the bother indeed.
>>
>> Yet, I suspect this task can at least be completed within acceptable
>> timeframes with an acceptable error rate by most volunteers.
>>
>> (Interestingly, Gemini considers Copeland easier to hand count than
>> Nanson, which I disagree with)
>>
>> Are there any simpler methods I'm unaware off, despite any other
>> shortcomings such a method might have?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Etjon
>>
>> ----
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>> info
>>
>
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