[EM] Election day in Australia

robert bristow-johnson rbj at audioimagination.com
Sat May 3 13:11:36 PDT 2025


I've never understood, in a free society, the compulsory voting requirement.  I also don't understand that for our city councilors, unless they recuse themselves.One *should* be allowed to be neutral or even ignorant of the alternatives in a choice and abstain to vote.  It's our right to not take a position on an issue just as much as it's our right to take any position on the same issue.Voters should be allowed to rank as many (as space permits, there might be a limit of 5 or 6 levels of ranking) or as few candidates as they want.  And voters should be able to equally rank as many candidates as they want.  Of course, all unranked candidates are tied for last place on that voter's ballot.And our votes must count equally.  Hence Condorcet for single-winner RCV elections.Powered by Cricket Wireless------ Original message------From: Chris Benham via Election-MethodsDate: Sat, May 3, 2025 10:25To: Etjon Basha;Cc: EM;Kevin Venzke;Forest Simmons;Subject:Re: [EM] Election day in Austra
 lia
    Etjon,
      
      There is no concept of "approval" in STV.  But from my point of
      view, no problem allowing voters to rank or truncate as much as
      they like (especially in the single-winner case).
      
      But I think the official thinking is that compulsory preferences
      are in the "spirit" of compulsory voting.  Since everyone has to
      obey the laws passed by the legislators and the government will
      (very likely)be formed by one or another major party, then the
      government is more legitimate if everyone is coerced/cajoled into
      expressing a preference for one of the major parties over
      another.  If people could show up and just bullet-vote for
      "nobody", what is the point of them voting?  And if there is no
      point in them voting then how can we justify forcing them to
      vote?  (Still possible in my opinion but maybe more difficult.)
      
      What I consulted to help decide how I would vote:
      
      https://www.buildaballot.org.au/electorates/sturt
      
      
    
    On 3/05/2025 11:09 pm, Etjon Basha
      wrote:
    
    
      
      A bit of a bother, especially the 12 on the Senate
        side. Showing my ignorance here, but what issue would there be
        in allowing voters (who, in this particular case, have to show
        up on pains of a fine) to rank as many of as few as they like,
        and show approval by proxy that way? Exhausted votes? So what?
      
      
        On Sat, 3 May 2025, 11:33 pm
          Chris Benham via Election-Methods, <election-methods at lists.electorama.com>
          wrote:
        
        
          
            
              The "Leader of the Opposition"  (the leader of the
              parliamentary Liberal Party, Peter Dutton ) has conceded
              defeat.  So the Labor federal government stays in power
              and the current Prime Minister keeps his job.
              
              I was compelled to vote today, and if I wanted to have my
              vote counted (and possibly affect the result) I had to
              strictly rank all seven candidates for the single-member
              district  I live in (in the state of South Australia) for
              a seat in the House of Representatives.
              
              I dislike compulsory preferences, but I don't notice
              anyone else complaining about them. I consider them are
              far lesser evil than any limitation on the number of
              candidates a voter can rank, as happens in some parts of
              the world that use some version of Hare/IRV.
            
            The GIGO  (garbage in, garbage out) effect of compulsory
              full-ranking is much lower with Hare than it would be with
              a Condorcet method or Borda.  And the days when most of
              the voters had an FPP mindset and the way you vote for
              party X is to blindly follow X's "how-to-vote card" handed
              to you by a volunteer as you enter the polling station
              are  mostly over (or at least have receded a lot). So is
              there is less of the effect of transferring some power
              from voters to small parties whose candidates get
              eliminated.
              
              As well I voted among 39 candidates to fill six vacancies
              for the Senate, using STV-PR (semi-corrupted into a sort
              of fixed List PR).  The candidates were in 16 party groups
              plus one "Ungrouped" group.  Each group had a least two
              candidates and at most four (but I assume five and six are
              allowed).   I could either ignore the groups and number at
              least 12 candidates, or I could ignore the individual
              candidates and vote  "above the line" and number at least
              6 groups.
              
              Australia has a "Westminster" style parliamentary system
              and the house of parliament on which the government is
              based is elected using single-member districts.  The
              election campaigns tend to be quasi-presidential with a
              lot of focus on which leader of one of the two major
              parties voters want to be Prime Minister and much less on
              individual local candidates.
              
              One way I think this can be undemocratic is if the leader
              of the winning party fails to keep his seat. Peter Dutton
              I gather is not completely safe in his seat. It could have
              happened that a majority of voters voted Liberal because
              they wanted Peter Dutton to be Prime Minister but were
              denied just because the voters in his district rejected
              him. So then the PM would be a Liberal MP elected by the
              Liberal MPs to be the new leader of the parliamentary
              Liberal party, someone the majority of voters may dislike
              or know little or nothing about.
              
              The leader of a major party is obviously far less likely
              to lose his seat in a multi-member district using PR.  And
              that problem can't exist in a system where the head of the
              government is directly elected.
              
              https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal-election-2025
              
              https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-03/peter-dutton-losing-dickson-coalition-leadership/105247916
            
            
              In
                short:
              Peter
                Dutton will become the first federal leader of an
                opposition to lose his own seat.
              Mr
                Dutton has conceded he has lost Dickson.
              What's
                next?
              The
                Liberal Party will have to search for a new leader.
            
            
            https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-03/act-election-results-senate-house-of-representatives-2025/105244060
            
            "I
                think we've seen across the country independents doing
                well … some who haven't quite won a seat but have made a
                seat marginal for the first time, and I think that's
                more and more people wanting a different kind of
                politics in Australia," Mr Pocock said.
            
            Chris B.
            
              On 3/05/2025 11:38 am, Rob Lanphier via Election-Methods
              wrote:
            
            
              Hi folks,

Australia is holding an election now.  Rumor has it (or should I say
"rumour has it") that these are the best places to track the
Australian election results:
* https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal-election-2025
* https://results.aec.gov.au/
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Australian_federal_election

Anyone got other reliable sites to track in real-time?  If (by the
time you read this), the important elections have all been decided,
I'm curious to know if you have an opinion on the results (especially
an informed opinion).  The math on this one should be interesting...

Rob
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