[EM] inaccurate Fargo approval voting results

[Closed Limelike Curves]

I don't think any advocate of approval has ever claimed the winner of an
approval election is guaranteed to cross the 50% line.

On Sat, Jun 8, 2024 at 7:23 AM robert bristow-johnson <
rbj at audioimagination.com> wrote:

>
> Hay listen, people project all the time.  Or, at least, often.  It's
> nothing new.
>
> No one has to engage him.  Why not just let him blather to himself?
>
> But, it *is* interesting that both Approval and IRV  advocates like to
> repeat the same false claim.  The 50%+ majorities are guaranteed.  An old
> lie of FairVote.  The denominator of the fraction disenfranchises voters
> with "exhausted ballots".
>
>
> *Powered by Cricket Wireless*
>
> ------ Original message------
> *From: *Michael Garman
> *Date: *Sat, Jun 8, 2024 08:16
> *To: *Michael Ossipoff;
> *Cc: *EM list;Evangeline Moore;
> *Subject:*Re: [EM] inaccurate Fargo approval voting results
>
> Should I care what you think about anything? Considering you repeat the
> same bigoted assertions — to use your term — ad nauseam, I’m inclined not
> to.
>
> On Sat, Jun 8, 2024 at 12:32 AM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 20:32 Michael Garman <
>> michael.garman at rankthevote.us> wrote:
>>
>>> The results were still reported incorrectly. That doesn’t inspire
>>> confidence in the system!
>>>
>>
>> Should I care what you hav confidence in?
>>
>> If you don’t have confidence in counting approvals, when the only errors
>> didn’t include any wrong winners, then I don’t blame you for especially
>> having no confidence in IRV, whose much longer & more elaborate count was
>> bungled badly enough to elect the wrong winners.&nbsp ;
>>
>> I won’t keep replying to Michael G. on this conversation forever.
>>
>> Surely his need to be blocked is obvious.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> keep repeating your delusional conspiracy theories about 2000 and 2004.
>>> By your own standards, that’s bigoted assertion, not discussion.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 11:26 PM Michael Ossipoff <email9648742 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For one thing the errors didn’t wrongly report winners. The correct
>>>> winners were elected.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike some errors in which IRV elected the wrong people.
>>>>
>>>> …not quite the same thing :-)
>>>>
>>>> Count-fraud wouldn’t be worth the trouble if it didn’t do that too.
>>>>
>>>> The mountain of evidence reported by Harpers would be unlikely to be
>>>> accidental error :-)
>>>>
>>>> Especially given that a voting-machine supplier promised to “deliver”
>>>> the election to G.W. Bush.
>>>>
>>>> For details or substantiation I refer you to the Harpers articles after
>>>> G. W. Bush’s two elections, in 2000 & 2004.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 19:46 Michael Garman <
>>>> michael.garman at rankthevote.us> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Turns out approval has its own counting vulnerabilities. I hope
>>>>> someone lets Harper’s magazine know!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 10:42 PM Michael Ossipoff <
>>>>> email9648742 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the information. Though some of us will write to them
>>>>>> about the mis-reporting, I hope that you will too, or already have. They
>>>>>> should definitely hear from the person who noticed it, & not just 2nd-hand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s a relief that the winners have been correctly reported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, thank you for pointing that error out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 05:28 Evangeline Moore <
>>>>>> evangeline.moore at ih21.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I work at a Czech institute researching voting methods, and a while
>>>>>>> back I took an interest in the approval voting elections in Fargo. While I
>>>>>>> was running the numbers, trying to build a model for a separate project, I
>>>>>>> noticed that the approval vote results have never been accurately reported
>>>>>>> in Fargo. The winners are ri ght, but the percentages are not. They've
>>>>>>> never crossed 50% approval despite being widely reported that way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I posted an explanation of this on our website:
>>>>>>> https://www.ih21.org/aktuality/approval-voting-in-fargo When I
>>>>>>> realized that another election is coming up and that, as far as I can tell,
>>>>>>> nobody else has made the methodology publicly known yet, I wanted to get
>>>>>>> this out there. I also thought you guys might find it interesting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> EM
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for
>>>>>>> list info
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for
>>>>>> list info
>>>>>>
>>>>> ----
> Election-Methods mailing list - see https://electorama.com/em for list
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