[EM] Should we allow "voting off" this mailing list?

[Toby Pereira]

 I don't see most messages from Chris Benham or Kevin Venzke. I think it might be something to do with us all using Yahoo, but you aren't so there might be something else going on there.
Toby
    On Tuesday 23 July 2024 at 19:48:02 BST, robert bristow-johnson <rbj at audioimagination.com> wrote:  
 
 The goofy thing is, I have check and I never received any of these posts from Kevin Venzke <stepjak at yahoo.fr> nor from Toby Pereira <tdp201b at yahoo.co.uk> (that MO referred to) nor from most other posts that I see now at the archive http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/2024-July/thread.html .  

I checked my spam folder and nothing from [EM] in that.

So there is something wrong with the list server because I am not getting **many** posts.  Earlier I was seeing just a monologue from MO and sometimes a back-and-forth between MO and MG.  A couple of posts from Rob.  A couple from Kristofer and Closed Limelike Curves.  That's it.

I can see in the archive that there were many posts from people besides those from MO and MG (that I was getting tired of) but almost none of those posts came to my email.

I dunno, has anyone else had this problem of not getting about half of the posts made to the list?  Rob, is there some known thing about the list server that's doing this?  What *is* the server?  (The only one I have ever heard of is majordomo.)  I wonder if most list recipients are missing posts when they compare their Inbox to the list archive?

Oh, and about the topic at hand, I wasn't in favor of banning anyone (yet, anyway).  Just talking with them and scaling back the number of really low-quality posts which would then increase both the median and average quality of the posts on this list.  After all, there are some giants in the field that are part of this list and, in the past, the list quality was very high.

And to Michael Garman; it's never my intention that you're chased offa the list.  But some of us are rightly suspicious of, dismayed with, and unimpressed with FairVote and the arguments FV (or RankTheVote) put forth to push IRV to the detriment of the core values that RCV is meant to promote.  So please, remain here, continue to advocate for Hare RCV if you want.

But don't expect us to let the falsehoods go without challenge.  You just cannot truthfully say that Hare RCV (or any RCV) will guarantee that the winner gets over 50% of the vote.  That lie, one of which that comes from the RCV organizations, *must* be refuted every time it is spoken or written.  At one time I saw Rob Richie and FV scale that back and include qualification like "over 50% of the 'active votes'", but even so, the impression they're trying to leave is a false impression.  And that has no excuse.

It would be as if I would claim that Condorcet always guarantees that there is no spoiler.  (But I will claim that *if* there is a Condorcet winner *and* the Condorcet winner is elected, there are no spoilers.)

And I know that Michael Ossipoff has been with this list from before the time I joined in 2009 just after the Burlington fiasco.  I think MO knows his shit better than I do.  It's mostly about the high-volume, low-quality thing of recent times where it seemed like his was the only voice we could hear in the room.

robert

> On 07/23/2024 2:06 PM EDT Rob Lanphier <roblan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts on this subject. The "voting" thing that I started led to me learning A LOT about the social dynamics of this list. It would seem that the people who spout the most vitriol often have the thinnest skin. I suppose that shouldn't be surprising to me, but ... well, live and learn. I've always appreciated your participation in this mailing list, and I'm glad I've never been the recipient of your vitriol. Please don't start ;-)
> 
> I think just having a discussion about when I should bring the banhammer down has been useful. It's a little surprising to me the level of expertise of the people still convene on this mailing list, and I appreciate having all y'all here. I haven't yet seen ANY online forum that has the right mix of moderation tools and moderators to truly get things right, but this latest flurry of drama has reminded me that there's more work to do.
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 1:39 AM Kevin Venzke <stepjak at yahoo.fr> wrote:
> > I think we should not vote people off this mailing list.
> >  
> >  For people getting mails in a digest, maybe it would help to have a limit on how many times one can post in a single day.
> >  
> >  Kevin
> > 
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r b-j . _ . _ . _ . _ rbj at audioimagination.com

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