[EM] Strategy-proof vs Monotone

[Richard Lung]

Thank you, Forest,


Just to clarify, I'm not asking Kristofer personally, for a theoretical 
test. I'm asking a group or groups tor actual binomial STV test 
elections, with either of the hand count procedures, in my two booklets. 
I admit these descriptions are sketchy. But at this stage, not a great 
deal of detail is required, as it would be premature to set in concrete. 
It's a dialog. You can always ask!

Regards,

Richard Lung.




On 19/01/2022 22:02, Forest Simmons wrote:
> Richard,
>
> For the requested trial he needs pseudo code for Binomial STV!
>
> El mié., 19 de ene. de 2022 1:16 p. m., Richard Lung 
> <voting at ukscientists.com> escribió:
>
>
>     km,
>     You are repeating what the rest of my post already says -- the
>     need for testing in realistic scenarios. -- Not so much to test
>     monotonicity and strategy resistance. That is guaranteed by the
>     removal of the ad hoc premature exclusion of candidates. And
>     replacing it with an exclusion count, symmetrical to, or exactly
>     the same as the election count, That is a transferable vote, known
>     to be monotonic -- and hence so, in an exclusion count as well as
>     an election count.
>     I have actually given the odd example for illustrative purposes,
>     which shows that when you swap preference transfers, it can never
>     create a strategy incentive. That is because preference changes
>     are always accompanied by a change in the respective candidates
>     keep values. There is proper book-keeping of the electoral accounts!
>
>     You should be prepared to be surprised. Being surprised is no
>     argument.
>
>     You raised a much more pertinent criticism of binomial stv, which
>     needs to be tested by trial elections, to which I wrote an answer,
>     not to hand. In any case trials would be good, instead of
>     preconceptions, if it's not asking too much.
>
>     Richard Lung.
>
>
>
>     On 19 Jan 2022, at 6:59 pm, Kristofer Munsterhjelm
>     <km_elmet at t-online.de> wrote:
>
>
>     > On 19.01.2022 19:48, Richard Lung wrote:
>     >
>     > Treating an election as a statistic, binomial stv is monotonic and
>     > strategy-resistant. I would guess that all run-off methods, which
>     > actually includes traditional stv, are non-monotonic, in principle.
>
>     Unfortunately, without an implementation, I can't verify that
>     claim; and
>     since no STV method I've seen so far have been proven to be
>     monotone, I
>     would find it surprising if this were the case.
>
>     It would of course be good if it were true! But I have no way of
>     determining that.
>
>     -km
>     ----
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>
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