[EM] Yes/?/No
robert bristow-johnson
rbj at audioimagination.com
Mon Nov 2 07:32:36 PST 2020
> On 11/02/2020 5:00 AM Kristofer Munsterhjelm <km_elmet at t-online.de> wrote:
>
>
> On 01/11/2020 02.34, robert bristow-johnson wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On 10/31/2020 9:03 PM Forest Simmons <fsimmons at pcc.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Approval is one of the easiest election methods to explain and to
> >> understand; the ballots are identical to traditional FPP ballots except
> >> the instructions now say to mark the names of all of the candidates that
> >> you like instead of only one of them. As before the winner is the
> >> candidate with the greatest number of likes.
> >>
> >> But what about the candidates that you just like a little bit? Do
> >> you include them or not? Where do you draw the line between like and not like?
> >>
> >
> > i've been trying for a couple years to get the Election Science
> > people to answer that simple question. should a voter approve of their second
> > choice or not? there is no simple answer and the voter is burdened with
> > the task of tactical voting.
>
> The simple answer is that any ranked method has to decide the answer to
> some pretty tough elections. (Burlington being one of them.) Approval
> abdicates the responsibility to get them right, and places it on the
> voters instead.
that's not an answer (simple or not) to my question. the question is simply this: in Fargo North Dakota (which, BTW, is 30 km from where i grew up in the '50s, '60s, and '70s) where they have adopted Approval Voting (as best as i can tell, it's the only U.S. jurisdiction to do so), in an election with 3 or more candidates, should the voter Approve their second-preferred candidate?
that is a specific question. and it has no non-tactical answer.
(but with the ranked ballot, there is a simple non-tactical answer to the question of what the voter should do with their second choice. unfortunately, with Hare-STV that simple answer might hurt the voter's political interest.)
> That's how it can, on paper, satisfy so many desirable
> properties (like IIA); but in a sense, it's a trick.
>
> Approval is very simple to understand (procedurally) and count,
but it's not easy to vote. it forces every voter to vote tactically.
> and it
> probably *is* the best incremental change to FPTP if you're only allowed
> to make a slight change. But if you can aim higher, there are plenty of
> ranked methods better than it. IMHO.
>
since we're already making the leap to RCV (and this year it looks like RCV is picking up steam), we should make a slight change to RCV to fix this obvious problem that was manifest in Burlington Vermont in 2009. as best as i can tell, BTR-STV is the simplest, slightest change that does that.
BTW, in case anyone is interested, I wrote a "white paper" directed toward Burlingtonians (and other Vermonters) about this that has slightly more accurate numbers than either Warren Smith or Brian Olson's analysis.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/umfyn6roysithpg/The%20Impetus%2C%20Necessity%2C%20and%20Purpose%20of%20Ranked-Choice%20Voting.pdf?dl=0
and i have been able to find a nice and free copy of the Scientific American article from 2004, co-written by Nobel laureate Eric Maskin about RCV and Condorcet. but i don't like his terminology in two cases.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jl8cwhwhdsy10gh/The%20Fairest%20Vote%20of%20All.pdf?dl=0
also, I didn't report that, despite a mayoral veto, i was not successful in getting a Condorcet-compliant RCV on to the ballot for March Town Meeting. but the Progs have fucked up their RCV ballot question so bad that i think it will fail in March. i **did** persuade a couple of state legislators (one on the Gov. Ops. committee) as to what the problem is and what a solution could be (and i am plugging BTR-STV, simply because it is the simplest adjustment to the existing Hare STV to make it Condorcet compliant, sorry Markus).
--
r b-j rbj at audioimagination.com
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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