[EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

Fred Gohlke fredgohlke at verizon.net
Wed Jul 11 09:18:41 PDT 2012

Good Morning, Juho

re: "There may be also negative arguments against party control,
      but aren't those given reasons rational reasons that aim at
      creating the best possible and representative list of
      candidates that drive the party values forward?"

Ya got me!  I'd like to respond, but don't understand what you said.

In attempting to conceive a democratic electoral process,  we seek an 
electoral method that vests the power in the people.  That's why we call 
it democratic.  Candidates "that drive the party values forward" empower 
the party, not the people.

re: "I think I didn't refer to non-partisans. I meant that some
      regular voters may become activists and form a new party if
      thy are not happy with the existing parties."

That's quibbling.  If they do not support the existing parties, they are 
non-partisan, and non-partisans, as a group, "do not seek the ascendance 
of one group of citizens over another".  Why should they be denied a 
right to representation in the government just because they do not 
support a party that seeks to advance its own interest at the expense of 
those who don't share its views?

re: "I'm happy to leave this point open since I see multiple
      viable approaches that could be used by the various
      societies of the world."

Really?  And which of them will benefit the people when they do not give 
the people a way to identify and avoid duplicitous politicians?

re: "Face-to-face approach offers some benefits but it has also
      its problems, like long distance between the huge number of
      individual voters ..."

Which says we must conceive an electoral method that lets the people 
narrow the field, so fewer candidates must travel.  Given the 
availability of modern modes of travel, arranging face-to-face meetings 
is trivial.

re: "Different needs and different history may lead to different

That's stating the obvious, since it already has.  More pertinent is the 
fact that the vast majority of different systems are not truly 
democratic.  They do not let the people seek their best advocates from 
among themselves.  They interpose parties between the people and their 

re: (with regard to why there should be a limitation on
     candidate nominations), "The reason is that I have
     only time to evaluate max 100 candidates."

As you point out, there are practical ways to reduce the number of 
candidates while assuring each member of the electorate the right to 
participate in the process.  Can you propose a better alternative, one 
that empowers each and every one of us without forcing us to support 
unknown, self-interested politicians incapable of suppressing greed and 
avoiding war?  Should not the goal of a conception of a democratic 
political process be to allow every member of the electorate to 
participate to the full extent of their desire and ability?

re: (with regard to the statement that, "To exclude these people
     by setting arbitrary limitations is self-defeating."), you
     asked, "Why were they arbitrary?"

They are arbitrary because those who impose the limitations arrogate to 
themselves the right to deny some members of the electorate the right to 
compete for election to public office, thus gutting the essence of 

re: "Why not possible rational and balanced limitations that
      might be used to keep the number of candidates manageable?"

"Rational and balanced limitations" in whose eyes?  Certainly not the 
eyes of those who are excluded.  In what way does any person or group of 
people gain the right to decide who shall be allowed to participate in 
the political process and who shall not?

Keeping the number of candidates manageable is straightforward.  The 
first step is to let those who don't want to compete drop out and the 
second is to let their peers decide which candidates are worthy of 
public office.

re: "All potential candidates should be given a fair chance to
      become candidates. That doesn't mean that we should allow
      all interested people to becme candidates (because the list
      might become too long)."

That is self-contradictory.

re: "(Again I note that your earlier hierarchical proposals
      could allow all people to be candidates. But that's only
      one possible solution to the problem.)

I, too, think there must be other solutions.  Since you're sure the 
hierarchical proposal is "only one possible solution to the problem", it 
would be very helpful if you'd suggest others.  We're looking for a 
conception.  We can't form one until ideas are outlined in sufficient 
detail so they can be evaluated.

re: "Usually you can get the best end results if the core of the
      proposal is made and kept in good shape by one person or a
      small team of similar minded people."

I appreciate the effort you have devoted to this discussion and your 
comments on "the list".  While I'm not shy about stating my views on the 
matter of a democratic political system, those views in and of 
themselves are worthless.  They'll pass with me.

The views that have value are hidden, in bits and pieces, among all of 
us.  Although I've written several goals, that was merely an attempt to 
seed fallow ground.  It is much more akin to the 'common' of years past 
than to a private lot of my own.  I've no wish for others to stand in 
awe of the beauty of my fruit.  I don't want to deny our peers the pride 
and satisfaction one gets from seeing the fruits of their own labor.  I 
want them to bend their own backs.  I want them to seed, water, 
fertilize, cultivate and prune the plants so the entire community can 
feast on their wisdom.


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