[EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

Fred Gohlke fredgohlke at verizon.net
Sun Jul 1 06:38:21 PDT 2012

Mike Ossipoff:

re: "...including ones whose proposals and procedures are
      democratic."  (posted in response to: "My comment was not
      referring to democracies, it was referring to parties")

Parties are not democratic, either in relation to the entire electorate 
or in relation to their own membership.  In terms of the entire 
electorate, they are but a subset of the people, organized to impose 
their will on the majority.  In terms of their membership, they are 
oligarchic.  They exhibit The Iron Rule of Oligarchy as described by 
Robert Michels.  You can find his fascinating study of the issue, 
Political Parties, at:


This brief excerpt may excite your interest:

   "It is indisputable that the oligarchical and bureaucratic
    tendency of party organization is a matter of technical and
    practical necessity.  It is the inevitable product of the very
    principle of organization ... Its only result is, in fact, to
    strengthen the rule of the leaders, for it serves to conceal
    from the mass a danger which really threatens democracy."
                                      Political Parties, pp 27-28

re: "It isn't the job of the electoral method to choose who will
      run, or to seek out candidates.  We ourselves, the public,
      the voters, should be the ones to decide who our best
      advocates are."

You are correct when you say, "We ourselves, the public, the voters, 
should be the ones to decide who our best advocates are."  You are wrong 
when you say it is not the job of the electoral method to ensure that 
happens.  The electoral method must ensure that each and every one of us 
is able to participate in the electoral process, including the selection 
of candidates, to the full extent of our desire and ability.  When the 
electoral method lets the parties pick the candidates the people will be 
allowed to choose from, it is not only undemocratic, it's dangerous.

re: "...but which you feel are somehow like Stalin and Hitler."
     "you need to understand and admit that what you really are
      opposed to is is government itself."
     "Yeah, that's what the Democrats say too  :-)   And the
      Republicans too."
     the various and sundry similar slurs strewn throughout
     your post.

These slurs are tiresome, and the deliberate misconstructions of my 
comments are tedious.  Until you demonstrate that you have the 
intellectual ability necessary to contribute and the common courtesy 
necessary to participate in 'Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process', 
I shan't waste my time responding to your posts.


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