[EM] Why proportional elections - Power arguments needed (Czech green party)

[Peter Zbornik]

Dear Terry,

thanks, answers in the text.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Terry Bouricius <
terryb at burlingtontelecom.net> wrote:

> Peter Zborník,
>
> The appropriateness of using PR to elect a party governing council really
> depends on the function and goal of the body.
>
> PR is appropriate when a group is going to engage in a deliberative
> process... where it is beneficial to have a microcosm of the full
> membership participating. There is compelling evidence that the quality of
> group decisions is enhanced through diversity, compared to exclusively
> like-minded people or "experts" who tend towards "group-think." Including
> members with diverse perspectives promotes consideration of new options
> that might not occur to a homogeneous group, and frequently leads to
> better decisions. (James Surowiecki gives examples and sites research
> showing this in his book "The Wisdom of Crowds.")

- Thanks yes, your tip is very relevant, I have used it in argumentation,
but forgot about the relevance.

However, if the council's function is non-deliberative, but rather to
carry out a workplan adopted by a majority vote at a convention, diversity
and proportional representation may not be beneficial to the organization.
Including minority perspectives who lost the battle at the convention may
prompt this faction to prove they were right by under-cutting the
workplan.
- OK. Our councils have significant executive powers they are not just
"clerks". There is not much time to discuss politics at the conventions,
since the elections take so much time into question.

Terry Bouricius

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raph Frank" <raphfrk at gmail.com>
> To: <VoteFair at solutionscreative.com>
> Cc: <election-methods at lists.electorama.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 5:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [EM] Why proportional elections - Power arguments needed
> (Czech green party)
>
>
> Another argument that can be used is that it maximizes the number of
> people who are directly represented.
>
> If you elect using a single seat method, then you could end up with a
> situation where 51% of the party are represented and the other 49%
> aren't.
>
> With PR, if you have 5 seats, then each councilor would represent at
> least 1/6 of the party.  This means that at least 5/6 of the party are
> represented on the council by someone they actually voted for.
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 8:00 AM,  <VoteFair at solutionscreative.com> wrote:
> > The method you have in mind proposing, namely the Schulze
> > proportional method, may not correctly fill the council with
> > smaller sub-groups -- such as members who comprise 15
> > percent of the Green Party -- so I don't suggest saying that
> > those smaller sub-groups will get representation. I presume
> > that the Schulze proportional method at least gives
> > representation for both a majority group and an opposition
> > group (which is often a virtual coalition), so that's what I
> > suggest focusing on.
>
> I think the final proposal was to use proportional rankings.  This
> will give a generally proportional result.  There might be some small
> variations.
>
> However, if the last few councilors are elected at the same time, then
> they should correct any problems with the earlier stages, so you get a
> President that is centerist and a proportional council.
>
> > As I've said before, it's difficult to get proportional
> > representation for more than the two main sub-groups
>
> That isn't true, PR methods are designed to do exactly that.  If a
> group represents 1/6 of the electorate, then they will get roughly 1/6
> of the seats.
>
> However, very small groups can't be represented due to a lack of seats.
>
> > (Although I have not yet seen a description of the Schulze
> > proportional method, I'm confident that it has to be much
> > better than your current approach of using single-mark
> > ballots.)
>
> Right, any PR method is better than single seat methods in terms of
> maximising the number of people who are directly represented
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