[EM] STV and weighted positional methods

[Kathy Dopp]

On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Jonathan Lundell <jlundell at pobox.com> wrote:

> If technology-avoidance is your goal, to the point of counting by "ordinary  citizens", I don't know why you want to bring spreadsheets into the picture.

Again you misconstrue my position. Like virtually all computer
scientists who do not profit from selling or certifying computerized
voting systems (and even some who do), I believe that there should be
methods that average non-programming citizens can use to independently
check the accuracy of vote counts.

You on the other hand seem to desire to push for voting methods that
would not allow ordinary citizens to check the accuracy of election
results unless they hired a trusted computer programmer or unless a
100% hand count was done of every IRV/STV election and the ordinary
citizens are allowed to and have time to observe.

Again, I care much more about the public being able to have an
understandable method of verifying the accuracy of election results
than you do since you are promoting virtually the only voting method
that makes it virtually impossible for an ordinary member of society
to verify the accuracy of results.

A complete Condorcet count by spreadsheet can fairly be called
"trivial" in comparison to any IRV/STV method by using a simple NxN
matrix where N is the number of candidates who run in the contest.

> PR, including PR/STV, seeks to produce a body that is as fairly
> representative of the electorate as possible, a goal at which plurality at-large elections fail miserably.

Yes, well the PR/STV counting method fails even more miserably at this
goal of fair representation than does plurality, in ways that treat
voters unequally and unfairly and do not allow a voter to even know
how to vote to help his favorite or second favorite candidate have a
better chance to win.


> I'm more concerned that my vote actually contribute to the election of a candidate.

Well then certainly you must oppose IRV/STV methods since you can
never be assured of that happening because IRV/STV fails that criteria
in more than one way.


-- 

Kathy Dopp

The material expressed herein is the informed  product of the author's
fact-finding and investigative efforts. Dopp is a Mathematician,
Expert in election audit mathematics and procedures; in exit poll
discrepancy analysis; and can be reached at

P.O. Box 680192
Park City, UT 84068
phone 435-658-4657

http://utahcountvotes.org
http://electionmathematics.org
http://kathydopp.com/serendipity/

Post-Election Vote Count Audit
A Short Legislative & Administrative Proposal
http://electionmathematics.org//ucvAnalysis/US/paper-audits/Vote-Count-Audit-Bill-2009.pdf

History of Confidence Election Auditing Development & Overview of
Election Auditing Fundamentals
http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/paper-audits/History-of-Election-Auditing-Development.pdf

Voters Have Reason to Worry
http://utahcountvotes.org/UT/UtahCountVotes-ThadHall-Response.pdf