[EM] Fwd: Question on RCV/IRV multi-seat method used in Minneapolis

[Raph Frank]

(forwarding this)

Hi,
Did you intend to send your reply to the full list?  I haven't replied
to the list just in case.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:38 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
<abd at lomaxdesign.com> wrote:
> At 03:49 PM 9/23/2008, you wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Kathy Dopp <kathy.dopp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It should be OK as long as the random selection is actually reasonably
>> random.
>
> In theory. But Kathy Dopp is a voting security expert. They like to be able
> to recount elections and, if no errors were made, get the same results.
> While this can be done with pseudo-random sequences, I'm not sure I'd trust
> local election officials, who often have trouble counting plain ballots as
> it is, with the complexity.

Officially, in Ireland, the ballot ordering must be preserved for the
recount.  Formally, the ballots are shuffled once at the start of the
count and that is not repeated.

I think recounts just count piles in place and confirm that they are
possible ballots for that pile.

The fun part is when they did the electronic voting in a few
constituencies in Ireland, they had to use the same process as the
hand count.

> Asset Voting finesses the problem; I'd expect that most voters, even if the
> system remained STV, would simply vote for one. (I know a lot of people who
> think differently from me on this, at least at first. But if I don't trust a
> candidate to properly delegate authority, I probably shouldn't trust that
> candidate in the office, for they are going to make lots of decisions in
> office that I can't specify in advance, including many which delegate
> authority.

I think a combination ranked + asset is a reasonable compromise.

It is possible to say, "I like you but not your friends", especially
to a politician.

(Extra note)
I am thinking of political parties here.  Many voters cast non-party
based voting in PR-STV elections, but candidates are likely to only
transfer within the party.

If Asset results in a very large number of candidates/electors, then
this is probably less of a concern.