[Election-Methods] Partisan Politics

[Dave Ketchum]

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:04:12 -0500 Fred Gohlke wrote:
> Good Evening, Dave
> 
> re: "What the parties do is more a response to the structure of 
> government and the responsibilities of voters."
> 
> Can you describe these two points more clearly?  Do not the party 
> leaders direct the parties actions?  In what way(s) does the structure 
> of government affect them?  How does the responsibility of the voters 
> figure into this.  In what way can voters alter the course of a party? 
> How, for example, would they have stopped their party from supporting 
> the changes in the bankruptcy law?
> 
In New York, at least, the two major parties each do such as appoint half 
the members of the Boards of Elections.
      Major parties are based on getting votes when electing governor - 
can change instantly if Reps or Dems nominate enough of a reject.
      To have authority to act on such, party leadership MUST be elected 
during primary elections by party members - and must meet as legislative 
bodies for party activities such as the above.

A recent court battle in NY involved nomination for a multi-county office. 
The nomination was party business but:
      Were all the county organizations involved valid.
      Should this nomination have been done by the state party?
> 
> re: "Take a look at the Electoral College.  What would fit with what the 
> Constitution SAYS fits with the legislatures appointing electors who, 
> after studying such candidates as become visible to them, do their voting."
> 
> The Constitutional theory was fine, but it was undermined at the state 
> level.  The critical phrase is "... after studying such candidates as 
> become visible to them, do their voting."  Electors don't study the 
> candidates, they vote as they are directed by their party.  That result 
> flowed directly from the ability of parties to implement rules and pass 
> laws ... at the state level ... that give them control of the electors.
> 
My point was that the EC COULD operate more in line with what you are 
promoting.

In at least most states electors are not directed by their party but by 
party members in elections and/or caucuses.
> 
> re: "Perhaps their thoughts can move us toward a structure that gives 
> citizens more actual control ..."
> 
> I hope so because that is what democracy is supposed to be.
> 
> 
> re: "I see Fred's groups of 3 as too small for practicality."
> 
> Can you explain why?  The process is simple, understandable and 
> straightforward.  Why is it impractical?
> 
I only offer an opinion, with no defense today.
> 
> re: "Let citizens choose and back members of the legislature's territory 
> as legislators.
> 
> Assuming a legislature would fit for each member to represent about 75 
> citizens.  Then, according to backing:
> 
> Right to vote based on quantity of backers, but getting an excess does 
> not give more voting rights than 100.
> 
> Right to speak depends on having at least 50 backers.
> 
> Legislators at lower level legislatures act as citizens in next level 
> legislature, with their strength based on quantity of real citizens they 
> represent."
> 
> Can you help me understand this more clearly?  I'm not sure what you are 
> suggesting.  I tried to apply the math to my state but ran into a snag. 
>   My state had a voting-eligible population of 5,637,378 in 2004. 
> Depending on whether they represented 75 or 100 people, that would have 
> produced between 58,373 and 75,165 members.  I'm not sure what you see 
> as the next step.  Given our present transporation and communications 
> capabilities, I'm sure we could poll such numbers on all matters coming 
> before the legislature, but I'm not sure that's what you have in mind.

You start with the size of legislature desired.  If legislators should 
each represent about 750, multiply my numbers by 10.

Another thought for your state would be two levels - one for the state and 
a bunch at a lower level.

You had mentioned pr, so I propose THE VOTERS organizing themselves into 
the right size districts with no boundaries:
      Truly small groups get encouraged to band together such that their 
legislator can speak.
      Large groups get encouraged to split up to max their voting power, 
rather than letting someone amass enough votes to control the legislature.
> 
> Fred
-- 
  davek at clarityconnect.com    people.clarityconnect.com/webpages3/davek
  Dave Ketchum   108 Halstead Ave, Owego, NY  13827-1708   607-687-5026
            Do to no one what you would not want done to you.
                  If you want peace, work for justice.