[EM] Why We Shouldn't Count Votes with Machines

[Dave Ketchum]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:47:05 -0600 Kathy Dopp wrote:
>>Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 01:16:29 -0400
>>From: Dave Ketchum <davek at clarityconnect.com>
>>Subject: [EM] Why We Shouldn't Count    Votes with Machines
> 
> 
>>     Responses concentrate on fact that present DREs and paper
>>ballots have problems, and do not consider fixing the DREs.
> 
> 
> As virtually all (all I know) independent computer scientists (who do
> not profit from certifying or working for VVV's - vulture voting
> vendors)  agree, it is *not* possible to "fix" DREs because their
> fundamental design is flawed. I.e. Any machine cast or machine printed
> record of ballots is not going to work.

"fundamental design is flawed"?  If so, obvious response is to redo 
the design.
> 
> The flaws of DRE paper roll ballot printers include (there is a much
> longer list):
> 
> Studies show that fewer than 30% of voters check machine-printed paper
> ballot roll records and fewer than 30% of voters who check (or about
> 10% of all voters) accurately proofread their machine-printed paper
> ballot roll records to detect any errors, so that a programmer can
> switch up to 90% of available target votes in a way that no audit can
> detect. 

I do not see how an auditor could know of and tailor the audit to the 
particular ballots the programmer did not switch.

>          Also there is a "two strikes and you are out" rule that
> prevents the most diligent voter from having a machine-printed paper
> ballot record that matches the voter's choices.  A voter can only
> cancel ballot casting twice due to an incorrect printed paper roll
> record. On the third try, the voter receives an error message on the
> screen warning that the voter has only one more chance to cast their
> ballot.  On the third try, the paper roll ballot record whizzes
> quickly inside the canister WITHOUT GIVING THE VOTER A CHANCE TO SEE
> THE PAPER RECORD!
> 
What does it matter?  How come the redesign failed to attend to 
properly recording the vote?
> --
> 
> Any machine-printed paper ballot record will have the same flaws, and
> electronic video, audio, or pictorial verification systems are even
> worse.

Huh?  There seems to be general agreement that present DREs need 
replacing.  I only ask that we try for usable replacements.

I also cannot get excited over the machine-printing you mention - 
proper equipment should work correctly and not need such (except, 
perhaps, to please nervous voters).
> 
> Shamos is considered a rogue among computer scientists and I am fairly
> certain that Shamos does not have any degree in computer science, as
> is true of most "experts" who support DREs.
> 
> The persons who rebutted Shamos' articles *do* have formal training
> and degrees in computer science.

Crane's paper does not explicitly mention Shamos or its authors having 
such a degree - it does mention involvement in voting.

For one Crane author, Edward Cherlin, I read of working on affordable 
software and hardware for voting around the world.
      Hopefully he is intending such to be adequate.

Do not know if such a degree was available when I was in college - 
could not have learned much presently usable.  Remember a tidbit about 
weather forecasting.  Could give a computer data to predict for 
tomorrow - by the time program was done you could look out the window 
and see if it got it right.
      Remember a problem later at work - too much data for Fortran to 
fit in available memory.  Heard of a new language - Jovial.  Available 
staff was engineers who could hardly spell "program" and assembly 
programmers who could hardly spell "compiler".  I successfully 
installed compiler and taught staff for project to use.
      Later - task could not execute in available time - invented new, 
faster, instructions then used in available computers.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Kathy
-- 
  davek at clarityconnect.com    people.clarityconnect.com/webpages3/davek
  Dave Ketchum   108 Halstead Ave, Owego, NY  13827-1708   607-687-5026
            Do to no one what you would not want done to you.
                  If you want peace, work for justice.