# [EM] Real IRV Election, Disputable Result

Dave Ketchum davek at clarityconnect.com
Tue Mar 14 09:47:44 PST 2006

```SUMMARY of what I see since Rep. Jim Condon asked for help:

With IRV, tie-rank votes need to either be prohibited or the exact way of
accounting for them defined (counting them with each tied candidate
holding the same rank encourages taking advantage of such voting).  With
Condorcet, tie-rank should be normal, for voters can like it and it gives
no special advantage to users with the round-robin counting used.

IRR and VRR are being used here as synonyms for Condorcet.

BTW - IRV claims to getting a majority winner need understanding.  Try
voters who do not rank every candidate and could vote 25A  30B  35C.  IRV
will discard the 25A and declare C the winner among the 65 votes still
being counted.  Agreed C properly wins, but total votes were 90.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:06:02 -0800 Brian Olson wrote:

Brian recognized his previous error, and agreed that Kiss won that
election with either counting method.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:55:02 -0800 Brian Olson wrote, and I suggest reading:

He mentions difficulty with combining multiple precincts in a district.
My response is that, while it is bad, it is not as bad as he suggests -
you can note that multiple voters can vote identical patterns and pass up
counts for each pattern for central combining:
Besides counts of nulls and spoiled ballots (I here count equals as
spoiled with IRV), and counting votes for all but one candidate the same
as listing that last candidate as least liked:
2 candidates - same 2 counts as with Plurality.
3 candidates - A  B  C  A,B  A,C  B,A  B,C  C,A  C,B
4 candidates - A  B  C  D  A,B  A,C  A,D  B,A  B,C  B,D  C,A  C,B
C,D  D,A  D,B  D,C  A,B,C  A,B,D  A,C,B  A,C,D  A,D,B  A,D,C (and 18 more
with each other candidate as leader)
more - number of possible patterns goes up, but usage of all becomes
less likely

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:39:57 -0500 I wrote, and suggest reading:

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:53:44 -0800 Jonathan Lundell wrote, and I see

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:58:36 -0500 Eric Gorr quoted an article worth