Markus Schulze Wrote and Wrote Again:

Donald Davison donald at
Sun Jan 12 03:24:27 PST 2003

Greetings Markus and list members,

Dear Markus, you wrote:  "The aim of proportional representation is to
minimize the number of wasted votes.  However, proportionality is not the
only criterion for a good multi-winner method."  Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002,

Donald here:  I will agree that proportionality is not the only criterion
for a good multi-winner method.  An election method should be designed so
that these other criterions are considered and included, but having said
that, I also say that the acceptance of these other criterions should not
be an excuse to depreciate party proportionality.  Proportionality does not
need to go down in order for other criterions to be included.  Party
proportionalty can and should be maintain at near 100%.

Markus: "I prefer PR-STV because STV makes it posssible for independent
candidates to get elected."

Donald:  I am in favor of independent candidates being able to run in any
election method and I feel they should be able to get on the ballot with
the same ease as party candidates, but you must realize that an independent
candidate has two strikes against him before the race begins.  He does not
receive the money nor the leg work that a party candidate will receive, nor
does he receive the automatic party votes that a party candidate will

This is because most voters will trust a party more than an independent
candidate to represent them and while this representation will be via a
party candidate, the party voters will expect the party to keep the party
candidate's nose to the party line.  There is no party to keep an
independent candidate in line.  You may be a idealist Markus, but most
voters are realist.

Markus: "I consider this aspect important because I believe that the party
machines depends mainly on the chances of the candidates to get elected
without the support or even against the will of their party."

Donald:  Sorry Markus, but his statement needs a translation or a revision.
As is, it makes no sense.  Party candidates get elected because they do
have the support and willingness of their party to elect them.

Markus: "In the last elections (27 Sep 1998) to the German Bundestag,
something happened that demonstrated the direct link between the voters and
their MPs:  One poll station accidently used ballots that had been printed
for a different constituency so that wrong candidates were listed on these
ballots.  The poll station opened at 8:00 am and this accident was
discovered by a voter at 1:15 pm.  Until then, already 277 voters had voted
without even noticing that wrong ballots were being used."

Donald:  You should accept this event as proof that most voters vote for
party first, not the candidate.  Therefore, the better method of the future
will be a method in which the voter is free to rank parties and/or
candidates in any mix.

Markus: "(In Germany, the party label is printed next to the according

Donald:  This is necessary in order for the voter to vote for his party
regardless of the candidate.  It is the desire of the majority to vote for
their party first, don't fight it Markus, join them, allow the voter to
rank both parties and candidates.

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