[EM] Much Ado About Not Quite Nothing

Sun Aug 11 14:47:46 PDT 2002

Actually we are drifting away from nothing.

On Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Alex Small wrote:

>>Did you mean, Alex, that people suffer under IRV in a way similar to
>>those that suffer with cancer, but the more important thing is a
>>consensus, with a nearly perfect failure to say what it was that we can
>>agree over, and what exactly it was that was technical "not political"
>>(presumably mathematical since methods are too) that some unnamed
>>persons here were alleged to be not agreeing over.
>>
> 
> 
> I mean that our current political system in the US (plurality and
> single-member districts) is a very bad political system in need of fixing.
>  The IRV supporters have offered what they believe is a good solution, and
> the Approval supporters have offered what they themselves believe is a
> good solutionl.  It's impossible to design a voting system that will never
> ever display behavior that some group finds paradoxical or objectionable,
> so there is a technical disagreement between IRV and Approval supporters
> over which system is "better."  Both agree, however, on the need for a
> system that is better than what we currently have in the US.
> 
> In summary, the cancer is plurality, and the cures both have side effects.
>  The question of which side effects are worse is a technical one, just as
> a physician must use his expertise when prescribing medicine to come up
> with a therapy that will have minimally negative side effects.
> 
> Alex
> 

You list two attempts at cures, and mention that each suffers from side 
effects.  AGREED so far.
      With Approval I can list the one I REALLY like best AND the least 
ugly among those that seem to have a chance of winning, and know that all 
my approvals will be considered in deciding on a winner - but I cannot 
indicate a preference between these, which would matter if my true 
preference had a chance at winning.
      With IRV I can know that my ordering of preferences will be 
considered, but know that, by not looking at whole ballots, IRV can 
stumble into choosing a less liked candidate when more than two get 
significant vote counts.

There are many (a zillion?) other attempts at cures, but most inspire 
killer objections.

Condorcet gets backed by some of us.  The voter lists preferences in order 
as for IRV and, usually, gets identical results.  Condorcet compares EACH 
pair of candidates and, if one wins in each of its pairs, that one 
properly wins the election.  There can be a cycle in which several compete 
with each other while defeating those outside the cycle - a solvable problem.
-- 
  davek at clarityconnect.com    http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages3/davek
   Dave Ketchum    108 Halstead Ave, Owego, NY  13827-1708    607-687-5026
              Do to no one what you would not want done to you.
                    If you want peace, work for justice.

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FFrom election-methods-list-request at eskimo.com  Mon Aug 12 15:28:47 2002
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I was trying to delete that.

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rom election-methods-list-request at eskimo.com  Mon Aug 12 15:28:49 2002
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Hallo from the NAS guy!

News from the rear-edge of voting technology!

Peee-Euwww!

Anywho.

This is how it goes...

<blockquote>
<i>Preferential Voting.</i>  The term <i>preferential voting</i> refers to
any number of voting methods by which, on a single ballot when there are
more than two possible choices, the second or less-prefered of voters, can
be taken into account, if no simgle candidate or proposition<f1>1</f1>
attains a majority.

<f1>
  Wouldn't that be no single candidate nor proposition?
</f1>

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