[EM] Three Anti-IRV letters, for balance:

[Instant Runoff Voting supporter]

  ------------ Forwarded Letter #1 ----------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:08:37 +1300
To: "Donald E. Davison" <donald at mich.com>
From: Craig Carey <research at ijs.co.nz>
Subject: I can't help it if the Supreme Court ruled to remove IRV. They are
wrong of course

Hello

I have a of the 1/3 quota that would be in IRV if IRV was
a good method. That is at http://www.ijs.co.nz/quota-13.htm
Note that the argument is primarily in the diagrams, and
maths only finds that the 1/3 quota derived in the pictures
also exists in the full 3 candidate 1 winner method.

You seem to recommend IRV for Greens or Nader. Recall that
I sent in an example showing that increasing a candidate's
support by 33.30% will sometimes change the candidate from
a winner into a loser. Nader had trouble getting even 3%,
so how would he get 36%. I guess the figure would be lower
if the starting figure were constrained to be 3%.

You seem to be spelling the name of the man who says "IRV is
simple". It certainly is, and just as simple as far better methods.

I am now writing software that will measure the P1 compliance
of STV (P1 = (monotonicity and truncation resistance)). That
software would imply that improving STV would take the method
in the direction of Droop and away from Hare-STV, but also
quite a way beyond Droop. Rob R might be interested since he
a bit like the man who brought King Kong to New York, but
this particular one can be killed with a single bullet.
I really disagree with IRV peddling since it is creating a
spread out legal crisis in the future of USA, since it is such
a bad method. Why don't you investigate for me: when Greens
or CVD-ies introduce IRV or STV: do they make the legislation
lock out all better methods that may turn up. I guess they
do. Hence the idealism of them is only seeming and there is
really perhaps an intense absence of idealism amongst the CVD
people. If you had better success spelling Ritchie's name right,
then it might be you who lacks vision. It might seem like a
minor point to you -- just a issue with quality of motive,
(i.e. the locking out of the better methods of the future) but
it is the basis for Green party of NZ (Rod Donald) having me as
an fact-finding opponent. This is NZ, not a country where Green
leaders can make us bow to the black emperor of STV. They just
believe that STV ought be in legislation.

What would you say if Nader stood beside you and hinted that he
"couldn't get an extra 24.9 to 33%", ?. It is good to harm Green
candidates if they are at the bottom, but not those at the top.

If you can improve STV you can join my contest that will be
running next year. The best STV. But I would ignore your
pro-Hare-quota arguments since while your test may be desirable
[it wasn't defined well], it is not desirable to apply it to
as small a region in the simplex of possible elections. Anyway,
it was not the major issue: it seems that quotas for losers are.

I note that most IRV advocates have not got the depth of
intellect to be able to adapt things like diagrams proving
1/3 quotas. Suppose Nader was a competing King Kong, and there
was only one bullet: what does idealism indicate?. Why does
Rob Ritchie keep saying IRV is simple. He doesn't know how
to compare two methods under a test of monotonicity, I'd say.
If he'd thought about that then he'd know that improving IRV
(by adding quotas for losers) would be a tasking taking
minutes or days. Has such an easy thought been missed or...

I am writing GNAT Ada 95 code to search for more of these bad
examples. I have Meek STV converted to Ada 95 already. I'll
see you at the contest.

E-mail: Craig Carey <research at ijs.co.nz>  (backup terratope at yahoo.com)
Auckland, NZ. |  Snooz Metasearch: http://www.ijs.co.nz/info/snooz.htm

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Letter #2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:29:13 +1300
To: "Donald E. Davison" <donald at mich.com>
From: Craig Carey <research at ijs.co.nz>
Subject: I can't help it if the Supreme Court ... [2]

I make a correction: you did spell Mr R.'s name right, and the
surname does not have a "t" in it. I was reading your pro-IRV
methods. The audience is bit less than what could be hoped for.
Let's see if Demorep gets moderated at the Canada Votes list.
I guess he will be. If you disagree you could write to the
owners of that list.

The moon is out and some people say bad is good, or at least
'good for you'.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Don's reply
Dear Craig Carey,

You wrote:
>Let's see if Demorep gets moderated at the Canada Votes list.
>I guess he will be. If you disagree you could write to the
>owners of that list.

    The Canada Votes list will not be able to "Kick the DemoRepo man around
anymore", that list closed this month.

Donald Davison

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Letter #3
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 06:29:03 +1300
To: donald at mich.com (Instant Runoff Voting supporter)
From: Craig Carey <research at ijs.co.nz>
Subject: Re: I can't help it if the Supreme Court ... [2]

But it got replaced with another.
discussion at www.fairvotecanada.org

Things are happening in Florida, with that US $144 billion in punitive
damages for the selling of cigarettes:
http://www.cnn.com/LAW/trials.and.cases/case.files/0004/tobacco/overview.html

This is just the sort of thing I am thinking of when I think of the
IRV. You know it is a simple method, don't you?. What was it Janet said?:

At 12:49 09.10.00 -0700 Monday, JanetRAnderson wrote:
...
 >I think of CVD as a clearinghouse of information for the relatively
 >independent worker bees in various states.  I think of them as pragmatists
 >rather than researchers.

We are starting to scrape the sea bottom floor. Drag the trawl long enough
and a prize fish of pure RR reasoning that would satisfy any Ombudsman
might surface. America's children can wait in anticipation, the destiny
brought by the Cream & Milk parties. $144 billion in fines for toxic waste
dumping throughout council's halls of power.

If I send a tastier coelacanth than theirs, out to the CVD: would that be
warehoused?.

Is not even faith simple.


At 09:11 26.11.00 -0500 Sunday, Instant Runoff Voting supporter wrote:
 >Craig Carey,
 >
 >    The Canada Votes list will not be able to "Kick the DemoRepo man around
 >anymore", that list closed this month.
 >
 >Donald Davison

      ...quick trample events under Centaurs' hooves...

E-mail: Craig Carey <research at ijs.co.nz>  (backup terratope at yahoo.com)
Auckland, NZ. |  Snooz Metasearch: http://www.ijs.co.nz/info/snooz.htm