Reply to Hugh Tobin on Condorcet

New Democracy donald at
Thu Apr 24 07:06:11 PDT 1997

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Dear Hugh Tobin and List members,

Hugh Tobin wrote: >Condorcet does not require "transfer" of any votes.

Don writes: In order for a candidate to win a pairwise race that candidate
must receive votes from the candidates that are not one of the pair and not
in the pairwise race. I say each pairwise race is one run-off race and that
the votes are transferred from the candidates not in the pair to the two
candidates of the pair. If we do not like the word transfer - then maybe
the word reassign is more suitable - but somehow the votes get moved to the
pair candidates.

  See prior posts of Steve Eppley who defined pairing as a series of run-offs.

  Pairing looks like a run-off - it acts like a run-off - it must be a run-off.

Hugh Tobin wrote:
>The Condorcet winner is the one that wins each of
>his or her pairwise races (not a "majority").

Don writes:
I stand corrected - I will make this change in my description of Condorcet
- but my critique of Condorcet for now stays the same - Condorcet should
not be used in a real election - keep it as a parlor game if you must.

Hugh Tobin wrote:
>If nobody wins on that basis, there is a tiebreak.  The
>tiebreak methods I have seen do not depend on the number of pairwise
>wins, and would not be decisive if they did.  Least total against in
>worst loss has been popular on this list;

Don writes:
Thank you Hugh for posting this - I often wondered how Condorcet solved
ties - even after being on this list for more than a year I never knew -
thank you again - I gained from this exchange.

Hugh Tobin wrote:
> I believe Condorcet intended least absolute margin(s) of defeat.

Don writes:
What does "least absolute margin of defeat" mean? How do you define a
margin? Is a margin the difference between the two candidates in a pairing?
Do you then total up all the margins of defeats of each candidate and the
winner is the one with the smallest total of defeats? So many questions -
so few answers.


Donald Eric Davison of New Democracy at

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