List Expulsion Poll

[MIKE OSSIPOFF]

Is poll electioneering permitted? :-)

I realize that issues of member-expulsion aren't really  what this
list is intended to discuss, but I don't often bring it up.
Besides, off-topic posting is what makes Craig & Don so unwelcome.

Let me
just reply to Alex's message:

>1. Yes or No on declaring a members' request that Craig Carey no longer
>be allowed to post to EM

Alex wrote:

I vote no.

As incoherent as he is, there have been other list members whose messages
contained fairly extreme statements.

I reply:

But how many listmembers habitually go off-topic by posting
about other members as regularly as Craig & Don?

I didn't suggest the poll because Craig is incoherent, though I'm
not denying that he is. Most of Craig's objections claim that someone
else didn't define something fully, which is ironic, since no one
ever knows what Craig is saying.

But no, it isn't because of Craig's incoherence. It's his habit of
initiating personal attack. We don't need that. I claim that we shouldn't 
have to have it on EM.

I'm all for freedom of speech, but freedom of speech doesn't require
that a mailing list feel obligated to distribute the abuse of people like 
Craig or Don. Let Craig distribute his own e-mail
to those willing to not block it. We don't have to do it for him.

Alex continued:

Demorep is an obvious example. I
agreed with Demorep more than I agreed with Craig, but I also clashed with
Demorep at times. Overall, though, I thought that Demorep had interesting
things to say.

I reply:

Demorep isn't Craig's & Don's class of undesirables.

Alex continued:

Likewise, although Craig is almost completely incoherent,
removing him would set a bad precedent.

I reply:

How so? I'm not suggesting removing him for incoherence, but only
for habitually initiating abuse. There must be some
limit to what the list is willing to send to members and store in
its archive.

If removing Craig could lead to the removal of someone else like
Craig, that doesn't sound like a bad thing. Maybe you're suggesting
that it would be a "slippery slope", and eventually you or I might be
removed. But there's a qualitative difference that distinguishes
Craig & Don: Habitual initiation of completely un-called-for
undecorous & unseemly conduct. Making other members of the list the
topic of their letters to a degree that no one else does, except
for Blake, a year or 2 ago. But Don & Craig seem unable to stop.

Anyway, just the regular habit of posting about other list members
instead of the list's charter topic should be enough to say that
Craig's & Don's postings don't belong on EM. Or, if you think that
such postings do belong on EM, then why?

Mike Ossipoff


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